Gerrard (new) poll - IN or OUT?

[KentVillan]

Just now, AV82 said:

Largely I agree with you but he also would never, ever drop or sub McGinn.

Fair, but I think in Smith’s case it was less obvious who he should drop McGinn for. Now we have Kamara, and Luiz and Ramsey have both matured, and Sanson and Nakamba are fully fit… it’s harder to make the case for giving McGinn 90 mins week in week out.

[KentVillan]

4 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

I think we should have at least one new poll a day - possibly two for luck - asking ‘Gerrard - in or out?”

Particular reference should be paid to his body language in press conferences which, I am told, speaks volumes.

Condescending sarcasm works a lot better when it’s not based on a straw man fantasy argument that has been invented for the purpose of sounding clever

[jim]

8 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I know Smith had his flaws, but one thing I loved about him was if a player was in form he would keep the shirt, and if a player was on the bench, he’d motivate them with the possibility of coming on and winning the shirt back. Simple but effective. The only player who lost out to that was AEG, but he was fighting for Grealish’s place, which was an exception.

Gerrard has favourites who have been out of form for months.

Smith also had his favourites, in fact most managers do. Ollie was woefully out of form yet got starts, McGinn as well.

 
It’s just another stick to beat him with. He dropped his ‘best mate’ today for everyone’s second favourite Argentinian.
 

[AV82]

11 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Fair, but I think in Smith’s case it was less obvious who he should drop McGinn for. Now we have Kamara, and Luiz and Ramsey have both matured, and Sanson and Nakamba are fully fit… it’s harder to make the case for giving McGinn 90 mins week in week out.

That's a great point, I agree.

[juanpablosaliceband]

1 hour ago, Mantis said:

I wasn't saying that it was impossible to ever break into the top 6, I'm talking about establishing yourself there, which is something very different. Of course you need the right manager and the right set up but at the end of the day it's still next to impossible for any club out of the top 6 to permanently usurp one of the clubs already in it.

It’s difficult but not impossible. 15 years ago it seemed impossible to break into the top four. City and spurs then joined the club. The traditional 6 talk in the media is just a myth. There’s nothing traditional about it. FFP has made it harder but a club like Villa has the infrastructure to slowly get there. Our current problem is we are hiring the wrong managers and signing too many flop players. 

[Mantis]

3 minutes ago, juanpablosaliceband said:

It’s difficult but not impossible. 15 years ago it seemed impossible to break into the top four. City and spurs then joined the club. The traditional 6 talk in the media is just a myth. There’s nothing traditional about it. FFP has made it harder but a club like Villa has the infrastructure to slowly get there. Our current problem is we are hiring the wrong managers and signing too many flop players. 

Yes but even clubs who don't do this struggle to break in.

[juanpablosaliceband]

4 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Yes but even clubs who don't do this struggle to break in.

True. I’d just be happy with slow and steady progress, with some sense of confidence that we look like we know what we are doing! 2020-2021 was a fun season for the most part and we finished 11th. 

[KentVillan]

19 minutes ago, jim said:

Smith also had his favourites, in fact most managers do. Ollie was woefully out of form yet got starts, McGinn as well.

 
It’s just another stick to beat him with. He dropped his ‘best mate’ today for everyone’s second favourite Argentinian.
 

As I said already in reply to @AV82the squad depth wasn’t always there for out of form players to get benched. Who would you have dropped McGinn / Watkins for under Smith? It wasn’t clear cut.

FWIW, I was pleased to see Buendia starting today, but it’s taken him months to make the obvious change there. And I think a better coach would have had Coutinho doing more work defensively - or structured the team better so that his defensive laziness was less of an issue.

[Ingram85]

19 minutes ago, jim said:

Smith also had his favourites, in fact most managers do. Ollie was woefully out of form yet got starts, McGinn as well.

 
It’s just another stick to beat him with. He dropped his ‘best mate’ today for everyone’s second favourite Argentinian.
 

Oh and look at that, everyone’s second favourite Argentinian also just happened to be our best outfield player today as well as he was against Everton for his 30 minutes. 

Gerrard stuck with McGinn and Ramsey to no effect again, may as well play Easter island statues instead. He also went straight back to an out of form Konsa again over Chambers.

 

[KentVillan]

9 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Oh and look at that, everyone’s second favourite Argentinian also just happened to be our best outfield player today as well as he was against Everton for his 30 minutes. 

Gerrard stuck with McGinn and Ramsey to no effect again, may as well play Easter island statues instead. He also went straight back to an out of form Konsa again over Chambers.

 

The way Chambers has been treated is just bizarre. Has barely put a foot wrong in a Villa shirt.

[chappy]

I voted keep(removed from the emotion of the game by a few hours now). Gerrard’s made our re ent signings and if we hire someone else now do they bring in a load more players? Can’t keep changing manager. He does need to get better fast though. Sacking McPhee would be a better first move.

 

Having said that, I wouldn’t be disappointed if they did sack Gerrard tbh.

[Marka Ragnos]

5 hours ago, AshVilla said:

Why is the vote private.

I want to see the masterminds that think he's doing a good job.

I voted Keep. I’m not happy with our performances, and  I understand the frustration. Another couple losses like this, and I’ll say it’s time to move on. 
 

I respect others’ views, but I happen to believe it’s important to fully back credible managers to a degree that obviously goes beyond what many supporters feel today. I’d rather be honest than to pretend to go along with the majority. 

[Keyblade]

4 hours ago, penguin said:

I’m personally just very interested in hearing the reasoning as I can’t fathom it.

Any “pro-Gerrard” post seem to 99% consist of ad hominem “fickle”, “over-reactors” etc than stating an opinion.

I've yet to see a reasoned pro-Gerrard post about the performances/football/tactics etc. Like you say, it's literally nothing but tedious ad hominem. It's like being in bizarro world. They're being completely dogmatic about things, forming opinions without evidence but are making it out like it's everyone else who's irrational. Make it make sense.

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

I know Smith had his flaws, but one thing I loved about him was if a player was in form he would keep the shirt, and if a player was on the bench, he’d motivate them with the possibility of coming on and winning the shirt back. Simple but effective. The only player who lost out to that was AEG, but he was fighting for Grealish’s place, which was an exception.

Gerrard has favourites who have been out of form for months.

I was thinking this the other day. Any player who played well earned the shirt under Smith. The only time I saw the opposite was when El Ghazi scored 5 goals in a month but was immediately benched when Ross Barkley came back and it took him a while to get it back. It's so simple, but it's fool proof. Healthy competition. No resentment. Everyone playing at their peak.

[daft]

1 minute ago, Marka Ragnos said:

I voted Keep. I’m not happy with our performances, and  I understand the frustration. Another couple losses like this, and I’ll say it’s time to move on. 
 

I respect others’ views, but I happen to believe it’s important to fully back credible managers to a degree that obviously goes beyond what many supporters feel today. I’d rather be honest than to pretend to go along with the majority. 

I did as well, mostly because it is a club decision and I have no inside knowledge. Continuity is important for long term success, and that means struggling through really shitty spells. I have to trust them to do what is best. 
 

Success is a long term project, and while I doubt he is the man long term, and the apparent lack of changes (not subs, but tactical) at halftime really basted my flabber, they need to make sure the captain fixes the holes and gets the ship to safety first.

This is something I will extend to all managers we have and have had. 
 

Also, the consequences of the owners and Purslow letting it get to this if he really is as bad as we fear scares me more than anything to be fair. 
 

That could be club destroying incompetence.

[Villan_of_oz]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

The way Chambers has been treated is just bizarre. Has barely put a foot wrong in a Villa shirt.

The biggest red flag for me, Gerrard is incompetent just based on this alone.... How Chambers hasn't got a start this season is astounding 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Villan_of_oz

[KentVillan]

Tbh, I voted “sack” but I would give him another 5-10 games. I agree with others that panic sacking managers isn’t sensible and can put off future managers & players from joining.

[Marka Ragnos]

18 minutes ago, daft said:

Continuity is important for long term success, and that means struggling through really shitty spells.

Yes. As you suggest, there’s also a practical aspect, too.
 

If he got the sack this weekend, I think our players would suffer whiplash. I think it’s good for them to take in the situation for at least a couple weeks more. The sand is almost out of the hourglass, but not quite. 
 

The counter-argument is often, “How much more damage should he be allowed to do before is removed?”

I get that. But we’re still just three matches in, and he’s 1-3 for this new-look squad. Two more consecutive losses, and for me, and that’s it. I think it would also help us land a better manager if they knew our club culture isn’t sack-happy. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Marka Ragnos

[srsmithusa]

I voted sack after today (palace).  I’m not a professional but I could see after 10 minutes that our tactics were all wrong.   Yet we finished the match with the exact same tactics we started.  We are not a strong enough team to play our game and defy opponents to beat us.  (Only a handful of teams in the world are that strong).  TBF I don’t think we should sack him today because “anyone could be better.”   I am willing to have a few weeks patience to figure out who could come in and do better.   

Edited August 20, 2022 by srsmithusa

[ender4]

28 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I've yet to see a reasoned pro-Gerrard post about the performances/football/tactics etc. Like you say, it's literally nothing but tedious ad hominem. It's like being in bizarro world. They're being completely dogmatic about things, forming opinions without evidence but are making it out like it's everyone else who's irrational. Make it make sense.

I can give a good reason to say keep him. It’s called patience.  

33% wanted him gone and 67% wanted to keep him before the Palace game. 

Some of that 67% were close to saying sack him but were being patient in giving him more time. 

It’s the same now, most of that 9% will be angry and annoyed, but are more patient than the average Villa fan and so will give him another 1-5 games. 

And there’s nothing wrong with that.

 

For clarity, I voted keep in the first poll and sack in this poll. Usually I’m more patient that this so I’m disappointed that I’ve come over to the dark side but here i am.