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The depredations of Villa's midtableness


Marka Ragnos

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1 minute ago, Tomaszk said:

Dunno, west London and nice seaside?

Fulham only signed one in the summer. They are not better than us man for man. They have had a very good coach for coming up to two years.

Brighton do exclusively what we do sometimes. Buy players who can grow into top half players. They've had two very good coaches for coming up to four years.

I would expect if you put all our squads together, we'd have 8/9/10 of the top earners. We do need to stop dishing out huge salaries unless they are justified.

Agree and disagree. Firstly, not sure I agree about the bit in bold. You could very well be right, but we as a fanbase tend to rate all of our players very highly but are left scratching our heads when we can't finish above these teams. Like, why is that? Maybe our players aren't very good. 
Take Douglas Luiz as an example. I don't mind Luiz, I think he's tidy enough and he's got better over the years, but how good is he really...? Is he better than Harrison Reed? I bet every single person on this forum will say 'Delphinho, you're mad', but seriously, is he? Is he better than Palhinha? Is Buendia currently better than Willian and Andreas Pereira? 

At some point, us as fans need to realise that we are where we are because we're a below average PL side. Until we start scouting better and finding better players from abroad on <100k a week wages, we won't improve. We're not going to go to another top half PL club and take their better players. What we need to do is replicate what we did with Kamara and go out and find players that are top half quality but playing abroad. It's not easy, for obvious reasons, but there are plenty of them and given the wages we can offer and the size of our club, we can do it. 

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9 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Agree and disagree. Firstly, not sure I agree about the bit in bold. You could very well be right, but we as a fanbase tend to rate all of our players very highly but are left scratching our heads when we can't finish above these teams. Like, why is that? Maybe our players aren't very good. 
Take Douglas Luiz as an example. I don't mind Luiz, I think he's tidy enough and he's got better over the years, but how good is he really...? Is he better than Harrison Reed? I bet every single person on this forum will say 'Delphinho, you're mad', but seriously, is he? Is he better than Palhinha? Is Buendia currently better than Willian and Andreas Pereira? 

At some point, us as fans need to realise that we are where we are because we're a below average PL side. Until we start scouting better and finding better players from abroad on <100k a week wages, we won't improve. We're not going to go to another top half PL club and take their better players. What we need to do is replicate what we did with Kamara and go out and find players that are top half quality but playing abroad. It's not easy, for obvious reasons, but there are plenty of them and given the wages we can offer and the size of our club, we can do it. 

"Better" players is always a weird one to me, as 99% of players in the prem will be decent at something at least. I think it's all about bringing out their strongest, most effective attributes in the right team and set up. Are Luiz and Buendia effective in our system, for example? Ish, I would say. Are Palhinha and Pereira effective in Fulham's? They've certainly proven themselves to be so far this season, but then would they replicate that level of form playing for us? Probably not, and that's an issue I think we've always kind of had in a way, certainly as far as back as my brain really dares to go with DOL and MON. 

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It's the culture. 

Midtableness is within the walls in that tunnel. 

I believe our home crowd need to be more hostile towards the opposition whenever they have the ball. Make it uncomfortable to come here. 

 

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1 hour ago, Pinebro said:

It's the culture. 

Midtableness is within the walls in that tunnel. 

I believe our home crowd need to be more hostile towards the opposition whenever they have the ball. Make it uncomfortable to come here. 

 

Don’t agree it’s the culture. 

It’s not the culture, it’s not the manager, it’s not the fans. It’s not the stadium. It’s not the pitch.

Our players just aren’t good enough. We’ll start moving up the table when we sign better footballers. 

Talk of culture and the fans is just denial that the team aren’t very good because the players aren’t top half quality. 

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6 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Why would top half players sign for not top half Villa?

The same reason that they were prepared to sign for Newcastle, namely money and loads of it! 

We have it over them, when it comes to winning things more recently. Birmingham as a city has it, over Newcastle, particularly location wise (proximity to London) and we have the higher profile manager now. They are now one step ahead of us on league placings this season, but I suspect we could sell our ambitions to prospective players pretty well. 

We might not be able to match the wages that a few clubs (including Newcastle now) are prepared to offer, but I think our "project" and the salaries we are prepared to offer will be a match for quite a few clubs who end up in the top half.   

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On 20/02/2023 at 10:38, MakemineVanilla said:

 

I think it is something which players like Southgate, Young, Barry and Milner recognised, which prompted them to move on.

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure you can really put Southgate in with the others. The other 3 went in and won league titles and many cups. Southgate went to Middlesborough, won a cup and got them relegated. 

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2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Agree and disagree. Firstly, not sure I agree about the bit in bold. You could very well be right, but we as a fanbase tend to rate all of our players very highly but are left scratching our heads when we can't finish above these teams. Like, why is that? Maybe our players aren't very good. 
Take Douglas Luiz as an example. I don't mind Luiz, I think he's tidy enough and he's got better over the years, but how good is he really...? Is he better than Harrison Reed? I bet every single person on this forum will say 'Delphinho, you're mad', but seriously, is he? Is he better than Palhinha? Is Buendia currently better than Willian and Andreas Pereira? 

At some point, us as fans need to realise that we are where we are because we're a below average PL side. Until we start scouting better and finding better players from abroad on <100k a week wages, we won't improve. We're not going to go to another top half PL club and take their better players. What we need to do is replicate what we did with Kamara and go out and find players that are top half quality but playing abroad. It's not easy, for obvious reasons, but there are plenty of them and given the wages we can offer and the size of our club, we can do it. 

Andreas Pereira was a flop in Serie A and didnt pull up many trees in Brazil. Willian was also a bit of a laughing stock when he left Arsenal but has had a good return to form

At the time of signing they werent seen as shrewd signings. Imagine uproar on here if Gerrard had of tried to combine Coutinho and Willian as our playmakers

 

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10 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

A thread for those with a bit of realism and not delusional or bed wetters.

You saying we won't get champions league?

City game aside and for different reasons the last games have been quite enjoyable to watch, today was frantic and proper PL football, low on quality from both teams but it gives it an edge,the pace at times was crazy

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On the NBC coverage they'll show photos of American fans of Prem teams in kits and scarves etc. They never show Villa fans. Today it was all West Ham. 

But you know what? I kind of prefer it this way!

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Big miss on two more points today, it happens but if we want to finish a couple of places higher than where we are now....... we need all three from games like today.

Bournemouth is must win.

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19 minutes ago, maqroll said:

On the NBC coverage they'll show photos of American fans of Prem teams in kits and scarves etc. They never show Villa fans. Today it was all West Ham. 

But you know what? I kind of prefer it this way!

Same. As an American Villa fan I'm not even sure what I would do if I met a fellow supporter in the wild. 

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1 hour ago, maqroll said:

On the NBC coverage they'll show photos of American fans of Prem teams in kits and scarves etc. They never show Villa fans. Today it was all West Ham. 

But you know what? I kind of prefer it this way!

When the PL had its latest jump in popularity in the USA we were circling the drain then in the Championship, so there are still a lot of American PL fans who don’t really know who we are or have only seen us be pretty average/absolutely awful.

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2 hours ago, paul514 said:

Bournemouth is must win

Yeah. Lose that and we could slip down to 11th! :)
 

Looking at the table I think we should overtake Fulham and finish top half which would be the first time in a decade and set us up nicely for next season. But I don’t think it’ll be much better than 10th or much worse than 11th.

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Brighton 7th - 5 points ahead plus 2 games in hand. Extremely difficult to catch.

Fulham 8th - 4 points ahead and played a game more. Surely can catch by end of season.

Brentford - 3 points ahead and 1 game in hand. Decent chance to overtake them. 

Chelsea - 2 point ahead and billion pound squad starting to win games. Small change to overtake them. 

Villa high chance to finish 10/11th, an outside chance to finish 8/9th, and an extremely unlikely but still possible chance to go finish 7th.

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