paul514 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 2 hours ago, MWARLEY2 said: Hardly any interest in our players still. Do we over rate them as fans, and does our board over rate them in terms of transfer fees maybe. ? I am amazed that no one has come in for Guilbert Sanson and Traore yet. Not worldbeaters but still good players. There is an issue of who to offload them to post covid. A lot of the league that would usually take these players are very low on cash 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 5 hours ago, MWARLEY2 said: Hardly any interest in our players still. Do we over rate them as fans, and does our board over rate them in terms of transfer fees maybe. ? I am amazed that no one has come in for Guilbert Sanson and Traore yet. Not worldbeaters but still good players. I like Sanson but the games he was overlooked in suggest Gerrard doesn’t rate him. But I don’t think we can say that yet for Guilbert or Traore. Guilbert was out on loan so this week is the first time Gerrard has seen him, and Traore was injured all last season but got some cameos at the end. Don’t get me wrong, he might think they are both dreadful, I’m just saying we haven’t yet seen the actual evidence he wants rid versus Trezeguet, El Ghazi etc where it’s more obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheVilla26 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Trouble we have trying to shift players, is most Prem teams are buying from abroad. To buy from other English teams, even Championship players, the fees are mad at times. The likes of El Ghazi, Traore, Guilbert etc... I'd be surprised if any other top flight sides would want - they can probably take a risk on a European based player for half the cost. Therefore the market to sell these players is to European clubs but as we are seeing, they just don't have the money that is swilling about in our domestic League. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 25 minutes ago, UpTheVilla26 said: Trouble we have trying to shift players, is most Prem teams are buying from abroad. To buy from other English teams, even Championship players, the fees are mad at times. The likes of El Ghazi, Traore, Guilbert etc... I'd be surprised if any other top flight sides would want - they can probably take a risk on a European based player for half the cost. Therefore the market to sell these players is to European clubs but as we are seeing, they just don't have the money that is swilling about in our domestic League. We’re trying to sell when the time is wrong. Last summer we could’ve sold El Ghazi easier than now. Once a player is not wanted, all teams will wait for the best deal (possibly even look at a free/loan). That’s why we need to sell before we put players on the bench. When we know they’re not in the plan. Gladly Targett done well on his loan otherwise he’ll be added to the same list. This doesn’t work with top teams to an extent as most of teams accept the fact that their squad players are quality and has CL experience…etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Palace and Brighton both had more balanced squads than we did last season. I'd say that our recruit so far this summer probably puts us ahead of Brighton but on a par with Palace. Brentford will be in for a tough second season. Our squad is still less balanced than the Sly 6, Wolves, West Ham and Leicester (although their bubble might be about to burst as they have some key players to replace soon). I think we will be about even with Palace and Newcastle. I think Brighton and Brentford will struggle to compete as well as they did last season. So this is why I think we are somewhere around 10th - 12th at the moment. One more really good signing in the right position (CM) and I would hope that we'd move ahead of Palace and maybe in the same bracket as Leicester and Wolves (so maybe 9th - 11th) assuming that Newcastle will also continue to improve. Add in a quality striker and I think we'd be in a probable fight with West Ham and Newcastle for 7th, 8th and 9th. With maybe one of the Sly 6 having a poor season and being in that mix. A couple more signings next summer and then hopefully the arrival of some of our young guns the season after and we could be in a very strong position of being best of the rest - although Newcastle will be trying to mount a big challenge too. The trouble is that as much as the teams in those lower top-half positions improve, FFP and the amount of money that the Sly 6 retain means that it will remain very hard to turn the Sly 6 into a proper Top 8. In some ways having 3 or 4 teams fiercely competing for 7 - 10 might play into the hands of the Sly 6 as it makes it harder for those teams to get regular increased revenue from European and domestic cup runs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 13 hours ago, allani said: We also had a couple of spells of properly dreadful relegation form during that season. Many of the team we had 2 seasons ago were bought with the purpose of staying in the PL. The players we are now buying / trying to buy are to try and achieve a completely different target. This is one of the impacts of FFP (and some p1ss poor management by previous regimes) we couldn't buy the team we wanted straight away because the rules prohibited it. Instead we (and Newcastle will be in the same boat) had to buy 2 or 3 squads in quick succession order to try and catch up. Quite simply many of the players that we had 2 seasons were not good enough to sustain a position that we now aspire too. As demonstrated by the fact that for 1/3 of that season they were (mainly) great and for 2/3 of the season they were (mainly) awful. When they were awful we didn't have enough strength in depth to drop players in bad form or to try something a bit different. Last season was pretty similar - although our good spell was shorter. Even now how many of our team would actually be picked as a starter for any of the Sly 6 teams? The answer is probably none. We can't expect any manager to perform miracles and get a team of average talent to compete and beat teams who have better quality players in place. Just compare the value of the subs that Man City brought on in the last game of the season to the value of the subs that we brought on. Of course Man City and Liverpool are on a different level. But Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Spurs all have much better squads than us. Thanks to FFP we are not allowed to try and compete with them by buying players with the same value. We have to be smart and buy the right players and hope that the talented prospects coming through the academy develop into the right players for the first team in 2, 3, 4 or 5 years time. I think the Board are doing the right thing. Short term we have to buy. Longer term they are hoping that by investing and developing top youth talent - some of those youngsters develop into players who can play in the first XI and make us competitive. I think we are attracting some awesome talent into the academy but it will take time for those players to (hopefully) develop into quality PL / international players. We may luck out on a couple getting there early - but it is a "long game" strategy. Agree 99.9%. The only point that I have doubts about is the one in bold, because I fear that the Geordie Sheikh's will be allowed to make a mockery of FFP in the same way that Citeh's have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 16 minutes ago, allani said: Palace and Brighton both had more balanced squads than we did last season. I'd say that our recruit so far this summer probably puts us ahead of Brighton but on a par with Palace. Brentford will be in for a tough second season. Our squad is still less balanced than the Sly 6, Wolves, West Ham and Leicester (although their bubble might be about to burst as they have some key players to replace soon). I think we will be about even with Palace and Newcastle. I think Brighton and Brentford will struggle to compete as well as they did last season. So this is why I think we are somewhere around 10th - 12th at the moment. One more really good signing in the right position (CM) and I would hope that we'd move ahead of Palace and maybe in the same bracket as Leicester and Wolves (so maybe 9th - 11th) assuming that Newcastle will also continue to improve. Add in a quality striker and I think we'd be in a probable fight with West Ham and Newcastle for 7th, 8th and 9th. With maybe one of the Sly 6 having a poor season and being in that mix. A couple more signings next summer and then hopefully the arrival of some of our young guns the season after and we could be in a very strong position of being best of the rest - although Newcastle will be trying to mount a big challenge too. The trouble is that as much as the teams in those lower top-half positions improve, FFP and the amount of money that the Sly 6 retain means that it will remain very hard to turn the Sly 6 into a proper Top 8. In some ways having 3 or 4 teams fiercely competing for 7 - 10 might play into the hands of the Sly 6 as it makes it harder for those teams to get regular increased revenue from European and domestic cup runs. This is where I’m at. We don’t have a better team than Palace and Brighton, otherwise we’d have finished above them. We’ve done some good business so far this window which I hope will see us finish closer to 10th but we’re still miles away from the top 6/8 IMO. Depends how ambitious the board want to be really. Sign one more quality midfielder and I think we’ll finish in the top 10. Sign a couple more on top of that and we may be able to push for top 8. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 20 minutes ago, allani said: Palace and Brighton both had more balanced squads than we did last season. I'd say that our recruit so far this summer probably puts us ahead of Brighton but on a par with Palace. Brentford will be in for a tough second season. Our squad is still less balanced than the Sly 6, Wolves, West Ham and Leicester (although their bubble might be about to burst as they have some key players to replace soon). I think we will be about even with Palace and Newcastle. I think Brighton and Brentford will struggle to compete as well as they did last season. So this is why I think we are somewhere around 10th - 12th at the moment. One more really good signing in the right position (CM) and I would hope that we'd move ahead of Palace and maybe in the same bracket as Leicester and Wolves (so maybe 9th - 11th) assuming that Newcastle will also continue to improve. Add in a quality striker and I think we'd be in a probable fight with West Ham and Newcastle for 7th, 8th and 9th. With maybe one of the Sly 6 having a poor season and being in that mix. A couple more signings next summer and then hopefully the arrival of some of our young guns the season after and we could be in a very strong position of being best of the rest - although Newcastle will be trying to mount a big challenge too. The trouble is that as much as the teams in those lower top-half positions improve, FFP and the amount of money that the Sly 6 retain means that it will remain very hard to turn the Sly 6 into a proper Top 8. In some ways having 3 or 4 teams fiercely competing for 7 - 10 might play into the hands of the Sly 6 as it makes it harder for those teams to get regular increased revenue from European and domestic cup runs. It's fine margins, we finished 7 points off 8th last season, that's 2 wins and a draw, another CM and striker and we'd be right up there. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: This is where I’m at. We don’t have a better team than Palace and Brighton, otherwise we’d have finished above them. We’ve done some good business so far this window which I hope will see us finish closer to 10th but we’re still miles away from the top 6/8 IMO. Depends how ambitious the board want to be really. Sign one more quality midfielder and I think we’ll finish in the top 10. Sign a couple more on top of that and we may be able to push for top 8. Said a few times now I think Palace have quietly done some really good business Eze, olise, guehi, Mitchell, now this Derby kid, all good young English Londoners with a lot of potential If they could get more out of edouard and then continue to phase out the older players they will push for top 10 Edited July 8, 2022 by villa4europe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJay Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, duke313 said: It's fine margins, we finished 7 points off 8th last season, that's 2 wins and a draw, another CM and striker and we'd be right up there. And looking back at last season for the most part the games we won, we did so relatively comfortably and deserved those wins, there were a number of games we drew or lost that we should have got more from. Our new additions should hopefully improve on those draws and losses 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, John said: Agree 99.9%. The only point that I have doubts about is the one in bold, because I fear that the Geordie Sheikh's will be allowed to make a mockery of FFP in the same way that Citeh's have. Their signings to date haven't suggested that they are able to go full out and buy CL ready players by just throwing insane levels of cash at them (although to be fair for their first window they were firmly stuck in the relegation zone so would be a high risk move for many players). I also think that the Sly 6 (and the equivalent clubs in Europe) will be keeping a very close eye on Newcastle and calling foul on anything that they think is threatening their corrupt positions. They are a bit more united in that approach than maybe they were when Chelsea, City and PSG first launched their plans. I believe that some form of FFP should exist but let's not pretend that the current FFP is in place to do anything other than protect the interests of the "big teams" so their legal teams will be all primed to challenge any threat from Newcastle. Chelsea, City and PSG exploited (and continue to exploit) loopholes they hadn't spotted, but those have now been closed (or made much, much harder to exploit). I am not sure that the Sly 6 can ultimately stop Newcastle but I do think that it will be a slightly longer process than it was for others who suddenly found themselves with a massive amount of financial muscle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radness Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Has anyone seen the study someone did on Premier League fans positive/negative tweets last season? Apparently we were the most positive fans in the league with only 1/10 negative, Man U the worst with 1/3 neg. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 14 minutes ago, duke313 said: It's fine margins, we finished 7 points off 8th last season, that's 2 wins and a draw, another CM and striker and we'd be right up there. To be fair we were also only 7 points off 17th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, abdulaziz1 said: We’re trying to sell when the time is wrong. Last summer we could’ve sold El Ghazi easier than now. Once a player is not wanted, all teams will wait for the best deal (possibly even look at a free/loan). That’s why we need to sell before we put players on the bench. When we know they’re not in the plan. Gladly Targett done well on his loan otherwise he’ll be added to the same list. This doesn’t work with top teams to an extent as most of teams accept the fact that their squad players are quality and has CL experience…etc I see your logic and agree. However as, most things, it’s not that simple. Had we sold them last summer and not replaced them, the squad would have been pretty thin. Last summer we had massive upheaval anyway and I believe at that point the board weren’t convinced of the future under Dean Smith, so more rebuilding wasn’t really on the agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheVilla26 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 I don't think we should be comparing ourselves to Palace and Brighton. In terms of club size, fan base, revenue etc... they ain't even on our level. What they have done well is recruit the right players. Players who improve their team immediately and also who have good sell on value. Hopefully they won't be mentioned in the same breath as us in the coming seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 2 hours ago, abdulaziz1 said: We’re trying to sell when the time is wrong. Last summer we could’ve sold El Ghazi easier than now. Whilst he’d had a good season, I don’t remember any links to him leaving. So it may not have been that easy to sell then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted July 8, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Radness said: Has anyone seen the study someone did on Premier League fans positive/negative tweets last season? Apparently we were the most positive fans in the league with only 1/10 negative, Man U the worst with 1/3 neg. Really? There must have been a lot of other team's supporters hanging from the rafters then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 25 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Really? There must have been a lot of other team's supporters hanging from the rafters then. The loudest voices are always heard the most. That doesn’t mean there are many of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted July 8, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 8, 2022 13 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: The loudest voices are always heard the most. That doesn’t mean there are many of them. I like to think you are right there (see positivity!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, UpTheVilla26 said: I don't think we should be comparing ourselves to Palace and Brighton. In terms of club size, fan base, revenue etc... they ain't even on our level. What they have done well is recruit the right players. Players who improve their team immediately and also who have good sell on value. Hopefully they won't be mentioned in the same breath as us in the coming seasons. I have a sneaky suspicion Brighton are going to be a team that challenges for the top 10-6 places for many seasons to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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