PerryBarrPet Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, MSvillain said: Means nothing mate, what does Pep guardiola know about footballing talent? Indeed, what does Pep know about footballing talent when compared to the all knowing, all seeing fans? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, tomav84 said: but there have been far more instances of fans being proven incorrect than proven correct someone showed some of the posts regarding salah from chelsea fans from around 2015 as a prime example i just don't get why the automatic instinct is to believe these fans rather than judging ourselves. people "querying the validity" is fine. but getting down in the dumps about it and taking their opinion as gospel is a very strange mentality IMO I have said that, based on what I have read I would prefer to sign Bissouma as I know what we would be getting with him but if we sign this guy I will be very happy to have filled a position we need to fill and to judge him based on his football for Villa. Its great that we are actually active in the market and not sitting back doing nothing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villarule123 Posted January 25, 2022 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) Honestly, this website is embarrassing at times. 2 years ago we were looking towards Danny Drinkwater to save us from going straight back down to the Championship, now people are turning their noses up at signing a regular for Juve and Uruguay, after almost all of our recent purchases being a success, including a keeper (remember people saying it was pointless because we had Heaton) who is now one of the best in the world. You would think that by now people would just learn to trust the people in charge of the club. I also see people saying he isn't 'much' of an upgrade on Luiz. When did DL become a bad player? We need at least 2 players per position if we are going to manage Europe which will hopefully be around the corner. It will be vital in the Europa League which I have a feeling will be the way into the CL for us way down the line. Edited January 25, 2022 by villarule123 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aston_Villan4 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Just now, Wes said: About to? I thought we already did lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troon_villan Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 He's 24, played a fair whack of games for Juventus and Uruguay and plays in a position we need to fill. Given that that's all I know of the lad, I have no other option but to be rather excited by this. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: I don't think the people on VT are like that. We just signed Coutinho. Like me, many have said we don't know this guy and whether he is any good or bad but there is a lot of negative stuff about him and there is nothing wrong with actually listening to the negative messages and querying if there is any validity to them Trouble is that a lot of people haven't queried whether those negative messages are valid and have just said "oh Juve fans say he's **** so he must be bad" without actually challenging whether those views are (a) accurate in terms of the player's performance or (b) are because they are upset that a player has possibly expressed interest in leaving. Look at the debates on here about the likes of McGinn, Luiz, Mings, Watkins, Bertie, etc - you'd think that they were barely capable of standing up straight sometimes (and I can be guilty of hyperbole about them at times too!!). 3 minute "lowlight" clips from a 4 year career are hardly earth-shattering (especially as in the first three he made a mistake, then chased back and actually won back possession) - you could get something similar by knitting togther clips from our last match against Everton (ignoring the fact that we won against a team who were fired-up like never before this season). A random quote from a manager supposedly saying that the player is rubbish - but ignoring the fact that he pretty much plays that player EVERY match (and let's be honest it isn't like Juve don't have other options if he is/was really that bad - part of the reason they can consider selling him is because they have a lot of cover in that area but need the money to complete other signings in other parts of the pitch). Then certain people watch 20 minutes of one of the biggest domestic fixtures in Italy and say "it's a **** game and there is no way that he'll cope with the speed of the English game". It's fine to ask the questions and / or express some concerns - but there has been an awful of just plan bull**** written in this thread. On the balance of what has come out so far this week - I would say that the pluses definitely outway the negatives so far. I have to admit that personally I would prefer someone with immense tackling stats and decent passing stats (as I can see how that fits with a midfield trio of New Player, Luiz and McGinn). However, if SG has a different picture of what he wants his middle three to look like then the high interception stats and very, very good passing stats seem to suggest that there is a lot to be optimistic about. Oh and on the flip side - yes there are also those who will see nothing more than oh he plays for Juve and Uruguay so must be amazing - without considering why Juve are (seemingly) keen on selling him for so little (compared to rumoured price a season or two ago) and / or ignoring the fact that the Premier League is a bit of a different beast and there are lots of examples of players looking / being world class elsewhere and not adjusting (just as there are plenty of examples of players coming from Serie A and being just as good, if not better, in the PL). Edited January 25, 2022 by allani 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Greenfly said: I couldn't care less what Juve fan's opinion of him is. Let's be honest, average fans are idiots when it comes to accurately judging a player's quality. Also Juve fans are similar to Real Madrid fans when it comes to the way they talk about their players. They're just about the worst, most entitled set of glory hunting fans going. They probably hate him because he isn't Pirlo. I'm sure he'd do very well here. And if he's anything less than extraordinary right of the bat, I'll give him at least 3 kicks of the ball before making any judgment. I had this thought yesterday and was going to say something similar. If Juve fans are anything like the Madrid fans then I definitely wouldn't pay any attention. Spoilt brats. Seriously. One line I heard recently in regards to Villa was, in seriousness and lameness, 'Do you support a real team too?' In relation to a big name very expensive player another line was, 'We don't accept injured players at Real Madrid. We expect the best and we expect them to be fit.' Shit club. Maybe my examples weren't great, but it's true. They all were ready for the superleague too. Edited January 25, 2022 by Rolta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Think it's going to come down to if Juve want money now (selling Bentancur) or are happy to simply reduce wagebill for time being (Arthur to Arsenal). Then once that's been finalised, have to convince the player as previously stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Steero113 said: I wouldn't be against signing Bissouma but this fascination with him and blind ignorance of the main facets of both players does seem a little odd: Bentancur: Has the pedigree of playing for a CL side (over 150 caps at 24) and a top international side Rave reviews just 18 months ago by basically every stats network and wanted by top sides across Europe including City and Barca. Purportedly available for as little as £16/18m. Stats across the last 4 seasons take a huge shit on Bissouma in literally every single category except dribbling which isn't even part of the role we'd want him to play. Some posters on VT's conclusion: "Yeah but 15 Juve fans have said he's shit so lets spend 3 times the money on Yves Bissouma"... ALL of this, without even taking into account that if our scouts and management rate him, including our manager who himself was a world class midfielder, then we should automatically rate him. I'm not against either players, both appear equally ideal. It's just odd stand points for each player... A Brighton player is somehow worth £50m and a must get, because he shines in an average team and somehow a £16m Juve player is junk because of "fan opinions" Big team fans hold a way higher standard, more so if the team is under preforming.. Man united are shitting on all their midfield players, yet a Pogba would be a real transformation for a team like a Villa, same with Lukaku with Chelsea, Grealish with Man City. There's probably some truth to these Juve fans claims about Bentancur, however how much of that is just said for performative hyperbole? Think how we are with our players with a run of bad form, or even a run of good form As ideal as both the player we are linked with are there is a risk of a flop (or not being as good as we hoped) with both players.. The safest bet is probably Bissouma, but that smidge of safety is costing £30m+ and that's hardly sensible. We are not Everton. Edited January 25, 2022 by CarryOnVilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerryBarrPet Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Just now, Aston_Villan4 said: About to? I thought we already did lol Romeo Agresti should try to keep up otherwise no one will believe a word he says. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said: About to? I thought we already did lol Its a daft tweet. Villa 'about to' and the 'ball is now in Juve's court'. How is the ball in their court if we haven't submitted a bid. Edited January 25, 2022 by Peter Griffin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 minute ago, CarryOnVilla said: I'm not against either players, both appear equally ideal. It's just odd stand points for each player... A Brighton player is somehow worth £50m and a must get, because he shines in an average team and somehow a £16m Juve player is junk because of "fan opinions" Big team fans hold a way higher standard, more so if the team is under preforming.. Man united are shitting on all their midfield players, yet a Pogba would be a real transformation for a team like a Villa, same with Lukaku with Chelsea, Grealish with Man City. There's probably some truth to these Juve fans claims about Bentancur, however how much of that is just said for performative hyperbole? Think how we are with our players with a run of bad form, or even a run of good form As ideal as both are, there is a risk of a flop (or not being as good as we hoped) with both players.. The safest bet is probably Bissouma, but that smidge of safety is costing £30m+ and that's hardly sensible. We are not Everton. Agree with everything you say there. On the bold, I thought it was somewhat ironic that after getting an absolute pasting from a section of his own fans on Sat/Sunday, Bentancur then put in a MotM performance again AC Milan in the evening 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 minute ago, villarule123 said: Honestly, this website is embarrassing at times. 2 years ago we were looking towards Danny Drinkwater to save us from going straight back down to the Championship, now people are turning their noses up at signing a regular for Juve and Uraguay, after almost all of our recent purchases being a success, including a keeper (remember people saying it was pointless because we had Heaton) who is now one of the best in the world. You would think that by now people would just learn to trust the people in charge of the club. I also see people saying he isn't 'much' of an upgrade on Luiz. When did DL become a bad player? We need at least 2 players per position if we are going to manage Europe which will hopefully be around the corner. It will be vital in the Europa League which I have a feeling will be the way into the CL for us way down the line. I am yet to be convinced that he is a replacement / upgrade on Luiz. I can definitely see that if Gerrard is looking to dominate possession then there is room for both Bentancur and Luiz in the starting line up - with probably Bentancur in the slightly deeper role that Luiz has been playing this season and Luiz pushed a little further up to link up with Emi, Digne and Coutinho. I think the thing that potentially throws everything up in the air a bit is the form of JJ. I mean - he'd be unlucky to be dropped to the bench based on current form. However, I do think that a lot of what Luiz does goes unnoticed and JJ has the benefit of being closer to the opposition penalty box (let's face it shots / goals / assists look more exciting than playing the pass that led to the pass that led to the pass that led to the goal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Steero113 said: Agree with everything you say there. On the bold, I thought it was somewhat ironic that after getting an absolute pasting from a section of his own fans on Sat/Sunday, Bentancur then put in a MotM performance again AC Milan in the evening A lot of those fans then also claimed that he only did that because he was being scouted!!! Er - I think if we are at the point of making a bid for him then our scouting was done a few weeks ago!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 The fact is under Gerrard Mcginn has increased his passing accuracy quite a bit , he’s a lot more selective in his passing now. JJ has also improved. Bentancur can also improve although he’s a good DM already imo. Bentancur will be a good fit for us. If we get him. He made a few crunching tackles for Juve the other day. He was the best player on the pitch. And improved in the second half when Locatelli got out of his way. Mcginn drives with the ball very well, JJ is good at driving with the ball as is Coutinho. With attacking full backs too Bentancur just needs to give the ball to one of the runners. i believe he will adapt to the premier league as that’s probably the main concern. However he is young enough to improve further. To challenge for the CL you need players who will get you around 55% possession or more. He seems to have a good tactical awareness for the game too which I thought was his most impressive attribute. My Juve supporting (of 25 years) mate says his forward passing needs improvement but if he’s the 6 then his passing is good enough for Villa he said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, allani said: I am yet to be convinced that he is a replacement / upgrade on Luiz. I can definitely see that if Gerrard is looking to dominate possession then there is room for both Bentancur and Luiz in the starting line up - with probably Bentancur in the slightly deeper role that Luiz has been playing this season and Luiz pushed a little further up to link up with Emi, Digne and Coutinho. I think the thing that potentially throws everything up in the air a bit is the form of JJ. I mean - he'd be unlucky to be dropped to the bench based on current form. However, I do think that a lot of what Luiz does goes unnoticed and JJ has the benefit of being closer to the opposition penalty box (let's face it shots / goals / assists look more exciting than playing the pass that led to the pass that led to the pass that led to the goal). think i read somewhere that SG wants luiz to play further forward. so we'd have bentacur/marv then 2 from mcginn/luiz/ramsey/sanson suddenly our midfield is looking solid, with plenty of options. the likes of luiz and mcginn will need to be 100% on it every game, cause their positions are no longer safe 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) Supposed to be similar to Matic, strong nasty bugger..... but can also pass a bit too. Sounds like a good addition if we can get him. Edited January 25, 2022 by jimmygreaves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, KAZZAM said: Just hope he has the athleticism for the premier league. Just have this sneaking suspicion that Gerrard and the scouting and coaching teams may have assessed that before making the approach, Edited January 25, 2022 by briny_ear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerryBarrPet Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, tomav84 said: think i read somewhere that SG wants luiz to play further forward. so we'd have bentacur/marv then 2 from mcginn/luiz/ramsey/sanson suddenly our midfield is looking solid, with plenty of options. the likes of luiz and mcginn will need to be 100% on it every game, cause their positions are no longer safe Spot on. Two players for every position puts pressure on them all. No chance to ‘coast’ during a match - team performance gets better and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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