Steven Gerrard

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

They were praised and rewarded at the time, is 11th the benchmark now? It’s where we are trying to get that is important, not where we’ve been. I certainly doubt that NSWE are looking at the last decade as any sort of blue print for the future. 

No but this manager doesn't seem to be capable of bringing us past 11th

[Tomaszk]

7 hours ago, Eastie said:

Bang on the button - starting to see a lot of smiths players for what they really are and good riddance to them when he sells them on 

What are they? Not sure what you mean.

There's very few players not good enough to be at least competing for a starting XI spot IMO.

Who are "Smith's players"? Because he signed everyone at Aston Villa aside from Chambers, Digne and Coutinho.

Gerrard did good work moving on El Ghazi and Trez. Targett as well to an extent, but I don't think Digne was worth the money as an upgrade myself.

[Rightdm00]

50 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Sorry thats bullshit. Who are these Smith players? 

If you say Mings your argument is automatically a pile of shit

It's not the players. Never lost to Newcastle in 5 matches with Dean.  Now we roll up, play 90 minutes and generate one whole shot on target.  

If Steven needs a clear out just so he can beat Newcastle then we have huge issues. I don't think that is the issue. For me, his setup stinks. Worked a treat in the SPL but it's beyond naive for the PL.  Hopefully he improves on it soon or we will get rolled by some of the better sides playing like this. 

[Tomaszk]

15 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

It's not the players. Never lost to Newcastle in 5 matches with Dean.  Now we roll up, play 90 minutes and generate one whole shot on target.  

If Steven needs a clear out just so he can beat Newcastle then we have huge issues. I don't think that is the issue. For me, his setup stinks. Worked a treat in the SPL but it's beyond naive for the PL.  Hopefully he improves on it soon or we will get rolled by some of the better sides playing like this. 

It worked in Europe for rangers as well, but of course, again, they were mostly on the back foot there.

I think he's going to have to come up with something new if he wants to succeed. We are so so so easy to make chances against.

In terms of good PL sides, there's only Liverpool who never change shape ever. Even City piss about sometimes.

[Stevo985]

21 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

It's not the players. Never lost to Newcastle in 5 matches with Dean.  Now we roll up, play 90 minutes and generate one whole shot on target.  

If Steven needs a clear out just so he can beat Newcastle then we have huge issues. I don't think that is the issue. For me, his setup stinks. Worked a treat in the SPL but it's beyond naive for the PL.  Hopefully he improves on it soon or we will get rolled by some of the better sides playing like this. 

We've played a dozen games under Gerrard ffs

[Laughable Chimp]

4 hours ago, Rightdm00 said:

It's not the players. Never lost to Newcastle in 5 matches with Dean.  Now we roll up, play 90 minutes and generate one whole shot on target.  

If Steven needs a clear out just so he can beat Newcastle then we have huge issues. I don't think that is the issue. For me, his setup stinks. Worked a treat in the SPL but it's beyond naive for the PL.  Hopefully he improves on it soon or we will get rolled by some of the better sides playing like this. 

This is quite a different Newcastle team to the one managed by Steve Bruce the last 5 times.

They've upgraded their squad in January and were in form by the time they played us, now on a 5 game unbeaten streak(their previous 2 losses before this were to Man City and Liverpool) and have won 3 in a row.

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Laughable Chimp

[eholm]

6 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

Unless Buendia and Coutinho are playing a lot wider than they have been then I don’t see what it solves.  The full backs have an insane amount of work to do, the central midfielders have to go wider to help out, leaving Chambers who as far as I'm aware has barely played as a midfielder massively exposed.

Exactly this. I agree that players are currently significantly underperforming (as per TRO’s comments) but for me the system is the main issue here. As long as we continue with our FBs playing as wingers we will always need our 8s to fill in and cover them. This will then constantly result in us vacating central midfield and so be very easy to play through. Tbh it doesn’t matter who we have as CDM, there is just far too much space for one player to cover. Initially we were very compact but that has now changed. 

I don’t see SG changing his set up just yet...he still probably believes more coaching of the system is required so patience is the key. One relatively simple tweak would be to only allow one FB to attack at a time and the other one retaining their defensive position. This then means thatat least 2 of our 8s stay central so we have more control and presence if we lose possession. 

Personally I believe the system is too open for the PL but accept that SG will give it as much opportunity as possible to succeed. Also I’m 100% certain that as much as we are all attempting to analyse its weaknesses, SG, MB, GMac et al are all fully aware of the current imbalance that the system is creating at the moment. Gerrard will look to improve performance by changing the personnel initially before contemplating a structural change, IMO. 

[spiezels]

On 16/02/2022 at 05:44, Laughable Chimp said:

This is quite a different Newcastle team to the one managed by Steve Bruce the last 5 times.

They've upgraded their squad in January and were in form by the time they played us, now on a 5 game unbeaten streak(their previous 2 losses before this were to Man City and Liverpool) and have won 3 in a row.

 

People also totally forgetting about a thing called momentum, which is absolutely **** massive in football.

We had just come off a brutal game against Leeds. Having lost a 3-1 lead, heads were down, Newcastle have just signed a ton of new players, ground was bouncing, won the last what 4? It had a loss written all over it. 

Not to say it’s just acceptable, but it’s naive to be so much into the doom and gloom, and to compare Deanos to gerrards record against them is laughable. 

[Dale]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Thats the manager fault then. A good manager adapts his tactics to hos players, gets results and scrapes performances until the end of the season then changes system later

Indeed, Hassenhutl on arrival to Southampton played a variation on his predecessor's formation. Then used to summer to adapt. 

I'm not convinced that Gerrard's system is an issue of coaching, it fails on the basis that the shape when possession turns over is too exposed. 

[Davkaus]

25 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Thats the manager fault then. A good manager adapts his tactics to hos players, gets results and scrapes performances until the end of the season then changes system later

Couldn't agree more with this. Alarm bells were ringing as soon as he kept persisting with the fullback dominated play when we were limited to Targett on the left. As Stevo says, it's not been too many games so we shouldn't be writing him off yet, but so far it appears that he's got one style, and he's having us play it come hell or high water.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Davkaus

[briny_ear]

7 hours ago, Rightdm00 said:

It's not the players. Never lost to Newcastle in 5 matches with Dean.  Now we roll up, play 90 minutes and generate one whole shot on target.  

If Steven needs a clear out just so he can beat Newcastle then we have huge issues. I don't think that is the issue. For me, his setup stinks. Worked a treat in the SPL but it's beyond naive for the PL.  Hopefully he improves on it soon or we will get rolled by some of the better sides playing like this. 

Wow, if Gerrard’s set up is “beyond naïve” having achieved 1.4 points per match in his first 12, despite some rocky performances recently, it does make you wonder how we should describe his predecessor, who managed just 0.9 ppm in the first 11 of the season.

[PerryBarrPet]

18 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Wow, if Gerrard’s set up is “beyond naïve” having achieved 1.4 points per match in his first 12, despite some rocky performances recently, it does make you wonder how we should describe his predecessor, who managed just 0.9 ppm in the first 11 of the season.

Absolutely correct. Perhaps we’re seeing the rise of anti-Gerrard activists who will try all methods to denigrate him. I think it far too early to make a judgement - particularly with some of the players in our squad. There is still much to be done to improve our squad so I think any judgement on Gerrard should be a rational assessment of performance over time. Be sure, if this assessment shows he is failing I will be among the first calling for him to go - until then keep your powder dry.

[The Fun Factory]

5 minutes ago, PerryBarrPet said:

the rise of anti-Gerrard activists 

What are they going to do? Stick themselves on the road at Bodymoor?

[Davkaus]

"Anti-Gerrard activists"? 

These days, you can't even voice minor concerns without the pro-Gerrard gestapo raiding your house.

[PerryBarrPet]

3 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

What are they going to do? Stick themselves on the road at Bodymoor?

No, just ensure they understand how the club is making big strategic moves forward away from the mid-table mediocrity we’ve suffered for years. Knee-jerk thinking is not the way to judge what is happening - this approach may provide a short term anger release at tactics being employed but nothing more. Also if one off pieces of data are to be referenced make sure it makes sense - this last one did not.

[Davkaus]

Mid table mediocrity for years? Eh? We had one season midtable, after a year successfully avoiding relegation in our first year back in the division. We've not been treading water, it's been significant year on year improvement.

[Dale]

2 minutes ago, PerryBarrPet said:

No, just ensure they understand how the club is making big strategic moves forward away from the mid-table mediocrity we’ve suffered for years. Knee-jerk thinking is not the way to judge what is happening - this approach may provide a short term anger release at tactics being employed but nothing more. Also if one off pieces of data are to be referenced make sure it makes sense - this last one did not.

The club have taken a punt, we all hope its the right one. But the Gerrard appointment didn't scream strategic thinking did it? Massive change in strategic approach on the pitch says so much, look at template for Swansea (during their success), Southampton etc. It's built around having a consistent approach throughout the club (tactically too) that transcends the choice of head coach - Spurs have done what we've done on a bigger scale moving from Poch to Mourinho to Nuno to Conte. Unless you're making a step change for good (this is what Utd are proposing with Ragnick moving upstairs after his stint), it isn't a particularly strategic jump forwards.

Appointing Gerrard was a knee-jerk decision. And one based on very limited data in a league that we all see to be very poor in make up, there wasn't a huge amount of scope for overachievement there. Tbh if I was taking a punt on a manager from a league equivalent to the championship I'd have gone for Steve Cooper based on his success at Swansea and Forest (Potter-like appointment)! 

 

[Demitri_C]

24 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

"Anti-Gerrard activists"? 

These days, you can't even voice minor concerns without the pro-Gerrard gestapo raiding your house.

So you prove your point by calling others pro gerrard gestapo  

Edited February 16, 2022 by Demitri_C

[PerryBarrPet]

Just now, Davkaus said:

Mid table mediocrity for years? Eh? We had one season midtable, after a year successfully avoiding relegation in our first year back in the division. We've not been treading water, it's been significant year on year improvement.

How far back does your knowledge of Villa go? Years means far more than three. The Premier League started in 1993 and we were then second behind Man Utd but after then we were stuck in mid-table mediocrity resulting in eventual relegation. During that time did we ever come anywhere near winning the league? No of course not. 
Now back in the Premier we are, as you say, making some progress, but big changes must be made if we are to challenge at the top of the league. On the day Gerrard came we had a discussion on another thread about the squad . Many felt that we had only one player who was good enough to play for a top 4 club - Martinez. So if we are to challenge at the top big changes must be made. What we are seeing is change underway so, for me, far too soon to make rational judgements.

[Davkaus]

8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

So you prove your point by calling others pro gerrard gestapo  

Oh yeah, you're right. What it looks like I've inadvertently done is do what he did, but more so. What an amusing irony.