Steven Gerrard

[PerryBarrPet]

18 minutes ago, Dale said:

The club have taken a punt, we all hope its the right one. But the Gerrard appointment didn't scream strategic thinking did it? Massive change in strategic approach on the pitch says so much, look at template for Swansea (during their success), Southampton etc. It's built around having a consistent approach throughout the club (tactically too) that transcends the choice of head coach - Spurs have done what we've done on a bigger scale moving from Poch to Mourinho to Nuno to Conte. Unless you're making a step change for good (this is what Utd are proposing with Ragnick moving upstairs after his stint), it isn't a particularly strategic jump forwards.

Appointing Gerrard was a knee-jerk decision. And one based on very limited data in a league that we all see to be very poor in make up, there wasn't a huge amount of scope for overachievement there. Tbh if I was taking a punt on a manager from a league equivalent to the championship I'd have gone for Steve Cooper based on his success at Swansea and Forest (Potter-like appointment)! 

 

I don’t believe Gerrard’s appointment was knee-jerk. The club realised that we needed to raise the whole image of AVFC in the eyes of the football world - we know how big we could be many others don’t. Low profile managers were never going to do this. Of course Gerrard may be a mistake and if he is he should go but knee-jerk? No - just a calculated risk.

[Demitri_C]

11 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Oh yeah, you're right. What it looks like I've inadvertently done is do what he did, but more so. What an amusing irony.

I do agree with your intial point though

[hippo]

48 minutes ago, Dale said:

The club have taken a punt, we all hope its the right one. But the Gerrard appointment didn't scream strategic thinking did it? Massive change in strategic approach on the pitch says so much, look at template for Swansea (during their success), Southampton etc. It's built around having a consistent approach throughout the club (tactically too) that transcends the choice of head coach - Spurs have done what we've done on a bigger scale moving from Poch to Mourinho to Nuno to Conte. Unless you're making a step change for good (this is what Utd are proposing with Ragnick moving upstairs after his stint), it isn't a particularly strategic jump forwards.

Appointing Gerrard was a knee-jerk decision. And one based on very limited data in a league that we all see to be very poor in make up, there wasn't a huge amount of scope for overachievement there. Tbh if I was taking a punt on a manager from a league equivalent to the championship I'd have gone for Steve Cooper based on his success at Swansea and Forest (Potter-like appointment)! 

 

Bang on.

More worrying is that after Bruce Thierry Henry was reportedly in the frame. Seems they always wanted a celebrity manager ?

With that in mind we have to hope Stevie G comes good. The consequences of him failing don't bear thinking about.

[hippo]

38 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

It's no rise, the clan was established before he even walked through the door mate. You need to keep up!

Have a venture into the beginnings of the thread.

Well Stevie G said himself on appointment he knows he wasn't liked at villa park. So no real surprise if the fans turn quicker . 

[The Fun Factory]

1 hour ago, PerryBarrPet said:

No, just ensure they understand how the club is making big strategic moves forward away from the mid-table mediocrity we’ve suffered for years. Knee-jerk thinking is not the way to judge what is happening - this approach may provide a short term anger release at tactics being employed but nothing more. Also if one off pieces of data are to be referenced make sure it makes sense - this last one did not.

I would take mid-table mediocrity after the absolute shit show of the past decade. That would be a start.

You have to be in your mid twenties to remember the last time Villa were actually good.

Edited February 16, 2022 by The Fun Factory

[PerryBarrPet]

3 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

I would take mid-table mediocrity after the absolute shit show of the past decade. That would be a start.

You have to be in your mid twenties to remember the last time Villa were actually good.

Oh dear. I’m in my 70s how far back do you want to go? It’s 40 years this year that we won the European Cup. Not long after this win Ellis regained control and the years of hibernation began. So I too would take mid-table mediocrity over the previous ten year shit show but I want better. I want to see my club competing at the highest level once again. This won’t happen by attempts to creep slowly forward because any ‘top’ prospect we find/develop will be poached by a ‘bigger club’. We need to make big strategic decisions now in order to do this and, of course, have the individual tactical plans that underpin the strategy. You do not achieve success by hopping from tactic to tactic while having no strategic objective.

[The Fun Factory]

2 minutes ago, PerryBarrPet said:

Oh dear. I’m in my 70s how far back do you want to go? It’s 40 years this year that we won the European Cup. Not long after this win Ellis regained control and the years of hibernation began. So I too would take mid-table mediocrity over the previous ten year shit show but I want better. I want to see my club competing at the highest level once again. This won’t happen by attempts to creep slowly forward because any ‘top’ prospect we find/develop will be poached by a ‘bigger club’. We need to make big strategic decisions now in order to do this and, of course, have the individual tactical plans that underpin the strategy. You do not achieve success by hopping from tactic to tactic while having no strategic objective.

I want better. We all do. But it is going to be incredibly hard to break into the scum 6 soon to be 7, no matter how good your tactics are. Everton have spent a fortune and are going nowhere as well. I hope we make better decisions than they have in the past 5-6 years but still. We had numerous easier chances to break into the top teams in the 90s under Ellis and late 00s under Lerner but blew it. It is far harder now.

The whole tactic of NWSE is to to make  large player sales and reinvest into the squad. Like every team apart from the top ones. What big strategic decisions are you on about- on the pitch or off it? Planning to expand the ground seems fairly strategic imo.

[The_Steve]

The attitude of Targett demonstrates Gerrard won’t settle for it. Think the squad is due a good overhaul. We need commitment, not jellyfish who give up when we sign higher calibre players. 

[hippo]

1 minute ago, The_Steve said:

The attitude of Targett demonstrates Gerrard won’t settle for it. Think the squad is due a good overhaul. We need commitment, not jellyfish who give up when we sign higher calibre players. 

By that Logic countinho should have toughed it out at Barcelona

[sparrow1988]

8 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

The attitude of Targett demonstrates Gerrard won’t settle for it. Think the squad is due a good overhaul. We need commitment, not jellyfish who give up when we sign higher calibre players. 

The irony here being that Jellyfish are extremely resilient creatures.

[DCJonah]

11 hours ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Sentiment and football don't always make a good combination for a good football team.

Big difference between looking to improve and good riddance when we get rid of them.

[DCJonah]

11 hours ago, striker said:

I understand where you’re coming from and if Villa want to continually finish mid to lower mid table then keep those players. However, that isn’t the remit anymore.

The owners want, and will demand with the expenditure, European football. To achieve that consistently Villa need a step up in quality player recruitment.

Constant improvement is needed or you just stagnate and eventually start sliding to the wrong end of the table! 

My point isn't we shouldn't look to improve on those signings. 

More about the ridiculous reaction of showing their real selves and good riddance. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by DCJonah

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

Mid table mediocrity for years? Eh? We had one season midtable, after a year successfully avoiding relegation in our first year back in the division. We've not been treading water, it's been significant year on year improvement.

I argued similar under the last guy. We haven't been a consistent midtable or better Premier league team since MON walked out the door. 

That should be our first step before moving on. Gerrard needs time to build his way to move us into that top half and challenge for top 7/8. 

We still have serious gaps in our squad in terms of quality and its why the ridiculous expectations displayed on here under Smith were so laughable.

Edited February 16, 2022 by DCJonah

[Demitri_C]

20 minutes ago, Made In Aston said:

Now you are just being facetious.There are many reasons why you would make a like-for-like change. For example, managers lose their tactical identity or players stop responding to their motivation techniques. Sometimes you bring a manager in who is similar, but has a few minor differences, which will facilitate an evolution in style. 

Im not being faceticous. Did smith play the same style as Bruce? Did bruce play the same style di matteo did? No they didnt.

You dont just make a management change because you want more of the same. You want someone that can get the best out of what you got. Has gerrard done that so far? I dont believe so.

However i see signs of hwta he is trying to do but for whatever reason some players are incapable of doing so. I blame gerrard for doing stuff like having luiz on set pieces, but i dont blame him for watkins being capabale of doing a simple  press or passing the ball to a team mate instead of falling over and losing the ball cheaply. Thats just poor play from the player.

[PerryBarrPet]

3 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

I want better. We all do. But it is going to be incredibly hard to break into the scum 6 soon to be 7, no matter how good your tactics are. Everton have spent a fortune and are going nowhere as well. I hope we make better decisions than they have in the past 5-6 years but still. We had numerous easier chances to break into the top teams in the 90s under Ellis and late 00s under Lerner but blew it. It is far harder now.

The whole tactic of NWSE is to to make  large player sales and reinvest into the squad. Like every team apart from the top ones. What big strategic decisions are you on about- on the pitch or off it? Planning to expand the ground seems fairly strategic imo.

First things first. Yes it will be difficult but you don’t allow this to be a deterrent. 
Tactics follow strategy so NWSE, I think, have decided to grow AVFC by: investing their own money in players, team coaching and support staff, youth development including local at Witton, Villa Park development and developing ‘brand Aston Villa’ overseas - Las Vegas is part of this. NWSE have not, so far, even tried to follow a tactic of selling players in order to buy - in fact they tried to keep Grealish and when it became clear he wanted to go would not move on the £100m price. 
I don’t know much about Everton but I do know that throwing money at a problem does not necessarily solve it. You need that money to be part of a wider plan - they are building a new stadium so perhaps it’s part of that. 
Yes under Ellis there were numerous easier chances to break into the top teams. This did not happen because Ellis was risk-averse and overprotective of his own position to make such a move. On Lerner I think he lacked the stamina, tenacity and industry to make this happen. 
So yes it is now much harder but we have a choice. Go for it or live in mediocrity hoping we can inch our way forward and possibly get there one day!

[The_Steve]

25 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

The irony here being that Jellyfish are extremely resilient creatures.

My bad!! Ha. Thanks for correcting me. 

[VillaParkAvenue]

The thing is, even if Gerrard wanted to replace the whole team he can’t really afford to wait until next season to improve. For him to have a chance of attracting players, he must be able to at least show signs of improvement soon.

Otherwise, media will begin to talk about Villa’s expensive failure and Gerrard being a flop, leading to difficult recruitment in summer.

When I questioned bringing in a player like Coutinho in January with the chances of Europe more or less already gone, some explained it with Gerrard wanting a strong finish to the season exactly to create buzz and make recruiting easier.

[TRO]

17 hours ago, Eastie said:

Bang on the button - starting to see a lot of smiths players for what they really are and good riddance to them when he sells them on 

When Dean and Steve say that they see a difference in commitment in the players between the training ground and match day......you know we have a problem...its a DNA problem.

I think The players got Dean the sack, but he was too easy on them, but he also failed to bring it the kind of players, who was willing to graft and fight for the cause or for him, he was blinkered by signing wingers and the like....players who just want to be on the ball, not willing to work off it, and they wait around for it to arrive.

There is a reason, why this team is deemed to have a soft under belly or " are easy to play against".... we would do well in our analysis to look for reasons why that is and we might find ourselves closer to whats actually wrong.

Solutions to this will be found, no doubt in my mind, but it might take some surgery, and a bit of time, and my suspicion is  a few fan favourites may be found out....We have very few leaders in the squad of 25.

This has been going on for some time....even in our promotion year, we had better players, but only finished 5th.....We simply don't get enough out of the players we have.

No way, would we have acquiited ourselves like Wolves and Leeds to come back like they did.....its simply not in us.

I think SG saw something on Sunday, he was not quite aware of, because he doesn't see the same thing at BMH ...something Dean touched on.

This could be a bumpy ride....but SG has to be backed to see it through.

 

[Zatman]

32 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Im not being faceticous. Did smith play the same style as Bruce? Did bruce play the same style di matteo did? No they didnt.

You dont just make a management change because you want more of the same. You want someone that can get the best out of what you got. Has gerrard done that so far? I dont believe so.

However i see signs of hwta he is trying to do but for whatever reason some players are incapable of doing so. I blame gerrard for doing stuff like having luiz on set pieces, but i dont blame him for watkins being capabale of doing a simple  press or passing the ball to a team mate instead of falling over and losing the ball cheaply. Thats just poor play from the player.

You are. Bruce and Di Matteo were hired by a different regime. The system the club built was that any manager could keep the same system from the youth team and tinker with personnel and tactics 

We have ripped that up by appointing a manager who plays a different style. We spent 50/60 million on wide players which this manager is reluctant to play

A rebuild and Purslow and Lange need sacking 

[duke313]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

You are. Bruce and Di Matteo were hired by a different regime. The system the club built was that any manager could keep the same system from the youth team and tinker with personnel and tactics 

We have ripped that up by appointing a manager who plays a different style. We spent 50/60 million on wide players which this manager is reluctant to play

A rebuild and Purslow and Lange need sacking 

Doesn't help that these wide players spend more time on the injury table than the training pitch?