Steven Gerrard

[PaulC]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

We spent 50/60 million on wide players which this manager is reluctant to play

Well Traore and Bailey have hardly been fit 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, PerryBarrPet said:

Oh dear. I’m in my 70s how far back do you want to go? It’s 40 years this year that we won the European Cup. Not long after this win Ellis regained control and the years of hibernation began. So I too would take mid-table mediocrity over the previous ten year shit show but I want better. I want to see my club competing at the highest level once again. This won’t happen by attempts to creep slowly forward because any ‘top’ prospect we find/develop will be poached by a ‘bigger club’. We need to make big strategic decisions now in order to do this and, of course, have the individual tactical plans that underpin the strategy. You do not achieve success by hopping from tactic to tactic while having no strategic objective.

Our problems are not tactical or set up/team selection.......They are about balance and an inherent lack of working, particularly "Off the ball"......

The label of being " easy to play against " would have managers like Saunders, Shankly, Revie,Clough, running for the door....its a terrible label to be given, but it is correct.

SG slumped back in his seat on Sunday, because I think, it finally dawned on him, what he has on his books.....and with the present personnel, I don't think its going to be easy to change the mentality without a fuss.

It has to change and some manager has the unenviable task of changing it....I hope its SG.

I am not trying to be clever, but I have seen this for a long while under successive managers, but we all want to see the team win and you bury your thoughts, to some extent......Our team individually are a decent team, collectively, they are pants at times and that stems from balance in terms of individual attributes and a willingness to work for the win.....its all too pretty and passive, no grit, determination or a passion for competing, chasing the ball down, chasing lost causes and making yourself difficult to play against.

This team while technically ok.....are a horrible collection of losers.....There are teams in the league, with lesser players than us, performing better.....it has to change.

Edited February 16, 2022 by TRO

[Rightdm00]

5 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

This is quite a different Newcastle team to the one managed by Steve Bruce the last 5 times.

They've upgraded their squad in January and were in form by the time they played us, now on a 5 game unbeaten streak(their previous 2 losses before this were to Man City and Liverpool) and have won 3 in a row.

 

We also brought in quality this winter. Who did Newcastle bring in that was even remotely close to Coutinho or Digne? So I don't buy that. Were they in good form, sure. Still doesn't excuse our inability to even generate one quality attack all game. 

This lost shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum either. It's been coming for some time. Our xG  production has been poor since Steven has taken over.  We have struggled to produce more than 2 xG in any match other than Norwich. Even in games where we score freely Leeds finished with almost a full xG more than us. 

15 games remain. That's enough for Steven to reverse this trend. If he doesn't, it would be foolish to let him conduct a rebuild of our squad this summer. 

[PerryBarrPet]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

Our problems are not tactical or set up/team selection.......They are about balance and an inherent lack of working, particularly "Off the ball"......

The label of being " easy to play against " would have managers like Saunders, Shankly, Revie,Clough, running for the door....its a terrible label to be given, but it is correct.

SG slumped back in his seat on Sunday, because I think, it finally dawned on him, what he has on his books.....and with the present personnel, I don't think its going to be easy to change the mentality without a fuss.

It has to change and some manager has the unenviable task of changing it....I hope its SG.

I am not trying to be clever, but I have seen this for a long while under successive managers, but we all want to see the team win and you, bury your thoughts......Our team individually are a decent team, collectively, that are pants and that stems from balance in terms of individual attributes and a willingness to work for the win.....its all too pretty and passive, no grit, determination or a passion for competing, chasing the ball down, chasing lost causes and making yourself difficult to play against.

This team while technically ok.....are a horrible collection of losers.....There are teams in the league, with lesser players than us, performing better.....it has to change.

Spot on. We need to dispense with any ‘old baggage’ or preconceptions and understand where the club and some of our players are.

[Dale]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

This team while technically ok.....are a horrible collection of losers.....There are teams in the league, with lesser players than us, performing better.....it has to change.

Frankly. I think this is nonsense. 

I think they're set up to fail and easy to play against not due to mental weakness but lack of structure.

We've spent the past 3-4 years talking about the positive character of this squad. They're still the same people. Gabby doesn't play for us. We come back from behind, we don't go missing entirely, that's not it. Otherwise we'd have lost against Utd and Leeds.

Right now the issue is the system. 

[Dale]

22 minutes ago, Zatman said:

A rebuild and Purslow and Lange need sacking

Agree with all but this. 

It's incredibly clear Lange was overruled by Purslow. Purslow needs to show some contrition and leave Director of Football to it when we're next recruiting. 

[Zatman]

14 minutes ago, Dale said:

Frankly. I think this is nonsense. 

I think they're set up to fail and easy to play against not due to mental weakness but lack of structure.

We've spent the past 3-4 years talking about the positive character of this squad. They're still the same people. Gabby doesn't play for us. We come back from behind, we don't go missing entirely, that's not it. Otherwise we'd have lost against Utd and Leeds.

Right now the issue is the system. 

I think 6 of the team that started vs Liverpool last season are still regulars. Hardly losers

[Vive_La_Villa]

I honestly thing the issue is the league is just very strong and every game is extremely difficult unless you’re the top 3. We have some good players but then who doesn’t ? Our fans are struggling to deal with this concept and just think we have a right to be turning over teams like Newcastle and Leeds.
 

How do we fix the issues? I have no idea.

[Demitri_C]

54 minutes ago, Zatman said:

You are. Bruce and Di Matteo were hired by a different regime. The system the club built was that any manager could keep the same system from the youth team and tinker with personnel and tactics 

We have ripped that up by appointing a manager who plays a different style. We spent 50/60 million on wide players which this manager is reluctant to play

A rebuild and Purslow and Lange need sacking 

Im really not. It doesnt matter if bruce and di matteo were appointed by xia or krusty the clown the example is valid (also can i gently remind you that the board decided to keep bruce on as opposed to sacking him)

You can say that about any club then that sacks their manager. A new manager  is appointed to get the best out of what he has or exceed his previous manager he is succeeding whether thats via the same style or new style of play.

Im sorry but its ludicrous to suggest sacking purslow and lange. The last thing this clubs is more turmoil behind the scenes. Purslow has made two appointments one being smith whoch was a successful appointment.  The jury is still out on gerrard but even if he fails on what basis you sacking him and lange??

[Zatman]

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Im really not. It doesnt matter if bruce and di matteo were appointed by xia or krusty the clown the example is valid (also can i gently remind you that the board decided to keep bruce on as opposed to sacking him)

You can say that about any club then that sacks their manager. A new manager  is appointed to get the best out of what he has or exceed his previous manager he is succeeding whether thats via the same style or new style of play.

Im sorry but its ludicrous to suggest sacking purslow and lange. The last thing this clubs is more turmoil behind the scenes. Purslow has made two appointments one being smith whoch was a successful appointment.  The jury is still out on gerrard but even if he fails on what basis you sacking him and lange??

No well ran clubs should bring in a similar style of manager and fit the players into the system. 

Bayern Munich when they get a new manager make sure that he fits the system. When Pep leaves City they will employ a similar possession based manager 

We were supposed to build similar so yes if we do need a rebuild then Purslow and Lange need to go

[hippo]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Im not being faceticous. Did smith play the same style as Bruce? Did bruce play the same style di matteo did? No they didnt.

You dont just make a management change because you want more of the same. You want someone that can get the best out of what you got. Has gerrard done that so far? I dont believe so.

However i see signs of hwta he is trying to do but for whatever reason some players are incapable of doing so. I blame gerrard for doing stuff like having luiz on set pieces, but i dont blame him for watkins being capabale of doing a simple  press or passing the ball to a team mate instead of falling over and losing the ball cheaply. Thats just poor play from the player.

In general it's a tweak though.

If Gerarrd is planning a massive clear out of existing players - to implement his formation - that's risky imo. It's not as if Stevie G has a track record at this level.

Sure he needs a DM or two & maybe a striker. But if we are talking 6 or 7 players at first team level - I'd question that myself.

He must be able to get a tune of sorts out of what he has.

[WallisFrizz]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

No way, would we have acquiited ourselves like Wolves and Leeds to come back like they did.....its simply not in us.

I think SG saw something on Sunday, he was not quite aware of, because he doesn't see the same thing at BMH ...something Dean touched on.

This could be a bumpy ride....but SG has to be backed to see it through.

 

It was in us only a few weeks ago when we came from 2-0 down to draw against a United side who beat Brighton last night.

This league is brutal. The top 3 really are a class above everyone else. Then you have sides like Wolves, Brighton and West Ham who are in generally rich veins of form mainly achieved by good coaching and consistency. They have a few stars as do we. But really anyone can beat anyone and every game is a battle. We played Leeds at their own game and drew. Most will see this as a negative but for those that say we have no fight in us, those Leeds players were exhausted by the end, a team whose running stats are famously through the roof. Both us and them felt the effects a few days later and paid the consequences. 

Part of our problem this season has been the dip in form of individuals- Watkins, Konsa, and Martinez to name a few. 
Then a change of manager and style. 
Then, as outlined by most of VT, the failure to buy a defence minded midfielder which is essential to be able to play Gerrards system effectively. We are going to struggle unless he tweaks things.

However, I’m well over the doom and gloom now. We have some excellent players, a manager on the up, and great owners. Yes there needs to be some outgoings in the summer. I honestly believe that all talk of £35 million bids for Luiz was generated by us and we are desperate for someone to take him off our hands for a decent fee to buy the kind of player we actually need.

[lexicon]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

No you have read it wrong.....It meant he was a player who could do the job.....his reputation is an irrelevance.

It is his job to manage....but right now, he has inherited a squad with very questionable resources of defensive minded players....I accept the January window is now looking a bit imbalanced, under those circumstances.

Quite honestly, the Digne signing surprised me, not his quality, but his type.....but I accept he is a fine footballer, its just that the timing of Nakamba being out and us having no defensive nous in midfield, leaves the signing strange to me....I accept your questioning.....However Targett has shown his defensive frailties too, none more obvious than against Watford.....Cash is a converted winger and at times for me, it shows, quite often beaten down that right side....crosses come in quite regular and when we have late assistance , he can look exposed.

I think the options left open to the manager are limited....due to the imbalance of the whole squad.....so while changing things is the popular shout right now.....its a case of changing the bowler, but you don't change the bowling.

I think we have a real problem right now.....and I think its been coming, The January window, has done nothing to help that, despite the quality of signing being great.

I think the early wins were a typical manager bounce, we have now reverted back to type.......I hope he can find something from somewhere to reverse this " easy to play against" tag.

I think a lot of it comes from Gerrard's (in)experience as a manager so far - he managed in a league where he could flat out attack in just about every game and dominate the opposition fairly easily (with the exception of one team). This is what he knows so far and he's just starting his learning curve in the league (one of the reasons I was surprised we went for him, as the learning curves of Smith were a little frustrating). 

[jim]

13 hours ago, Zatman said:

No but this manager doesn't seem to be capable of bringing us past 11th

Wow, you’ve come to this conclusion after only 12 games.

Gerrard walked into a club that had lost 7 of their previous 11 with 5 on the trot. 

[LondonVillian]

2 minutes ago, jim said:

Wow, you’ve come to this conclusion after only 12 games.

Gerrard walked into a club that had lost 7 of their previous 11 with 5 on the trot. 

I agree it's too early to write him off and I've been impressed with his media duties and in general tactics. 

Results wise it is looking not great though merely "ok"

 

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, LondonVillian said:

I agree it's too early to write him off and I've been impressed with his media duties and in general tactics. 

Results wise it is looking not great though merely "ok"

 

Sherwood had as good opening stats with a shitter team

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said:

It was in us only a few weeks ago when we came from 2-0 down to draw against a United side who beat Brighton last night.

This league is brutal. The top 3 really are a class above everyone else. Then you have sides like Wolves, Brighton and West Ham who are in generally rich veins of form mainly achieved by good coaching and consistency. They have a few stars as do we. But really anyone can beat anyone and every game is a battle. We played Leeds at their own game and drew. Most will see this as a negative but for those that say we have no fight in us, those Leeds players were exhausted by the end, a team whose running stats are famously through the roof. Both us and them felt the effects a few days later and paid the consequences. 

Part of our problem this season has been the dip in form of individuals- Watkins, Konsa, and Martinez to name a few. 
Then a change of manager and style. 
Then, as outlined by most of VT, the failure to buy a defence minded midfielder which is essential to be able to play Gerrards system effectively. We are going to struggle unless he tweaks things.

However, I’m well over the doom and gloom now. We have some excellent players, a manager on the up, and great owners. Yes there needs to be some outgoings in the summer. I honestly believe that all talk of £35 million bids for Luiz was generated by us and we are desperate for someone to take him off our hands for a decent fee to buy the kind of player we actually need.

I agree with most of that, and I don't want to Labour points, but it was 15-20 minutes of brilliant play that led to our come back against united, not the issues we are debating......We produced an exhilarating display against Liverpool, in the 7-2 who we all accept as one of the top 3 teams in the country, but that too, was a one off for us and them....there are always going to be exceptions.....A Parrot can mimick a cat with a "meow".....doesn't make him a cat.

When I say, we are questionable in the fight....I am talking mainly about individual play, in duels and challenges, its there in games......but you failed to mention the more regular moments of falling behind to a defeat after going ahead,like at Brentford

look, I am not trying to kick a man when he's down, just trying to acertain, what really is wrong with us.....and I think the easy to play against tag, is one that is accepted and troubles most of us...right now in this from, we don't look like beating any Premier League sides despite having Countinho and Digne join us.

I think we are failing to see some things that are there and that is equally a part of the frustration.

 

[hippo]

2 hours ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

The thing is, even if Gerrard wanted to replace the whole team he can’t really afford to wait until next season to improve. For him to have a chance of attracting players, he must be able to at least show signs of improvement soon.

Otherwise, media will begin to talk about Villa’s expensive failure and Gerrard being a flop, leading to difficult recruitment in summer.

When I questioned bringing in a player like Coutinho in January with the chances of Europe more or less already gone, some explained it with Gerrard wanting a strong finish to the season exactly to create buzz and make recruiting easier.

The media won't report Gerrard being a flop.  We will be called a crisis club that no one can manage.and poor Stevie G will be a victim of circumstance.

[TRO]

58 minutes ago, lexicon said:

I think a lot of it comes from Gerrard's (in)experience as a manager so far - he managed in a league where he could flat out attack in just about every game and dominate the opposition fairly easily (with the exception of one team). This is what he knows so far and he's just starting his learning curve in the league (one of the reasons I was surprised we went for him, as the learning curves of Smith were a little frustrating). 

I think you make a valid point in some ways.....but I would counter that by saying, his appreciation of Defensive qualities at Liverpool, must have not been lost on him.

Steven Gerrard could be a pundit, if he wasn't a manager, having captained one of Europes top teams and Michael Beale is revered in terms of coaching prowess, so I would find it bizarre if they couldn't see what I see.

Its one thing, knowing whats wrong and another actually doing something about it.

Right now, we have too many players off the pace, for whatever reasons.....He can't play for them and neither can we.

The only answer, until the summer, is play through it...work as hard as we can.....and us keep supporting, like we do on Match day.

I get no comfort, talking like this, but I am so anxious to see us show some form.....I don't mean 15 minutes purple patches, ( which are great in themselves) but sustained quality play of both attacking and defensive nature.

I do agree with you....SG has been with us a very short period of time and yes, he is still learning.....I still believe in him, while I accept some of it, is on him.

I also believe that the issues we have, are not an overnight fix.

Edited February 16, 2022 by TRO

[hippo]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Im really not. It doesnt matter if bruce and di matteo were appointed by xia or krusty the clown the example is valid (also can i gently remind you that the board decided to keep bruce on as opposed to sacking him)

You can say that about any club then that sacks their manager. A new manager  is appointed to get the best out of what he has or exceed his previous manager he is succeeding whether thats via the same style or new style of play.

Im sorry but its ludicrous to suggest sacking purslow and lange. The last thing this clubs is more turmoil behind the scenes. Purslow has made two appointments one being smith whoch was a successful appointment.  The jury is still out on gerrard but even if he fails on what basis you sacking him and lange??

That's up to the owners.

Since they came in they have been developing youth, funding player purchases , hired recruitment, and sporting Director staff. Everyone was on the same page.

Now we have hired a relatively inexperienced manager on a massive salary & contract. 

If come summer, he wants to tear up the foundations that have been laid - and that fails to yield results. You could see the owners loosing faith in Purslow as CEO.  Maybe not sacking - but he would rightly have questions to answer.