Steven Gerrard

[sharkyvilla]

3 hours ago, PaulC said:

Gerrard is a winner he wont settle for inept performances like yesterday. Hes still finding out about players and I expect a big overhaul in the summer. 

I really don't get the 'he is a winner' stuff.  What about Roy Keane?  Nobody hated losing more than him but it doesn't always automatically transfer across to management.  I'd also be wary about a big squad overhaul in the summer as well, I think we have lots of good players that currently either are out of form or opposition know how we will set up every match and can negate them more easily.  Gerrard just needs to mix things up a bit more and hopefully learn ways of doing it between now and the end of the season, then hand-pick one or two top class signings in the summer.

[GingerCollins29]

Premature to be anti gerrard just yet, but defending him by saying theres too much deadwood or its still smiths team is nonsense.

A loss and a newcastle esque performance on saturday will raise serious, serious concerns about his ability to manage us 

[PaulC]

23 minutes ago, Zatman said:

We dont have any deadwood, the club system is that a new manager should be able to come in and adapt to the players we have with no more rebuilds required

Players that are never available to play and keep underperforming without mentioning names. 

[Adman]

42 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

Not sure if already posted but this lad has nailed it. We've all heard of the Diamond formation but Gerrard has introduced the Pokeball formation, except all we're catching is a bad GD

 

Against newcastle we managed to perfect the tri-craptic system of having an isolated attack, an overrun midfield and an exposed defence.  Everyone played badly except a couple who were average.  The subs made no impact whatsoever.  Gerrard has plenty of credit in the tank, but if his phrase of improving individually and collectively doesn't firmly and squarely include him and his coaching staff - then we will get battered.  Newcastle were a weakened and poor side there for the taking and we couldn't muster a whimper.  Still fuming tbh

[PerryBarrPet]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Kalinic hasnt played for Villa in 3 years, not sure how he has any blame on this season. We finished 11th last season with 55 points and added Coutinho, Digne, Ings, Bailey, Buendia, Chambers, Young to that squad

The manager is brought into improve our position and its not like he has been given the Norwich squad to achieve that

Let’s get things in order. Coutinho, Digne and Chambers have only just joined so far too soon to make judgements either way. Ings, Bailey, Buendia and Young were brought in much earlier by Smith so it is reasonable to pass judgement. Ings is a questionable purchase - not sure how he fits any system we play now or have played in the past. Bailey looked good briefly before injury so cannot make a sensible judgement. Buendia was disappointing under Smith but looks far better under Gerrard - influenced by Coutinho? Young is a short term stop gap but the fact he was getting game time previously tells you how poor the squad was and still is in part. We have too many mid-table players who will never be any better so need replacing - no chance of turning these ‘pigs ears’ into ‘silk purses’ - blaming this on Gerrard is misplaced.

[VillaParkAvenue]

6 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

I really don't get the 'he is a winner' stuff.  What about Roy Keane?  Nobody hated losing more than him but it doesn't always automatically transfer across to management. 

Can’t you see it? Gerrard loves winning. By being around him players will also begin to love winning. Finally, players will actually start to win because they now love it so much.

[A'Villan]

Unfortunately the criteria for what constitutes as a winner in Purlsow's book largely rests on one's accolades and standing in the game. That's fine, it's a clear indication that one has excelled at a given time. However it overlooks what are, in my opinion, some aspects of building a team and leadership that are more important. To name one, chemistry. 

If you're asking me, Dean Smith is a winner. Absolutely. I hope Norwich prove that too because I thought he was hasty taking that job, maybe I underestimate him though.

This is the Gerrard thread though. Too early to judge, so I won't too heavily. I am firmly of the belief that someone who has a leadership position based on their glory of yesteryear, has got to do better than saying, "it's not good enough and it's below standard" unless of course he is first in the firing line. 

[A'Villan]

10 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Can’t you see it? Gerrard loves winning. By being around him players will also begin to love winning. Finally, players will actually start to win because they now love it so much.

A'Villan loves Monica Bellucci. Long time. 

It will be a long time before the two go hand in hand until A'Villan realises that there's more to it than wanting.

[hippo]

30 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Unfortunately the criteria for what constitutes as a winner in Purlsow's book largely rests on one's accolades and standing in the game. That's fine, it's a clear indication that one has excelled at a given time. However it overlooks what are, in my opinion, some aspects of building a team and leadership that are more important. To name one, chemistry. 

If you're asking me, Dean Smith is a winner. Absolutely. I hope Norwich prove that too because I thought he was hasty taking that job, maybe I underestimate him though.

This is the Gerrard thread though. Too early to judge, so I won't too heavily. I am firmly of the belief that someone who has a leadership position based on their glory of yesteryear, has got to do better than saying, "it's not good enough and it's below standard" unless of course he is first in the firing line. 

Great post - nailed it

[Kiwivillan]

23 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

A'Villan loves Monica Bellucci. Long time. 

It will be a long time before the two go hand in hand until A'Villan realises that there's more to it than wanting.

I misread that first glance

[A'Villan]

3 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

I misread that first glance

Out of likes but if I had my time again I'd opt for your first take on it.

[A'Villan]

5 minutes ago, hippo said:

Great post - nailed it

Thanks.

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, PerryBarrPet said:

I’ll have some of what you must be smoking. No deadwood at Villa - tell me about Kalinic for a start. So a new manager should adapt to mediocre, mid table, players even though the owners and fans want the club to move upwards quickly? What’s going on is part of a long term development so don’t complain if we see no quick fix superficiality.

These are not mediocre, midtable players. But even if we were, yes he should be able to adapt to them. Look at Brighton and Wolves...Southampton even. All worse squads than ours.

The solution to our problems shouldn't always be "clear out players a/b/c, bring in players x/y/z. Hell, that's largely what we've been doing for the past 3 seasons. Our squad is almost unrecognizable to the one from 2 seasons ago.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

These are not mediocre, midtable players. But even if we were, yes he should be able to adapt to them. Look at Brighton and Wolves...Southampton even. All worse squads than ours.

The solution to our problems shouldn't always be "clear out players a/b/c, bring in players x/y/z. Hell, that's largely what we've been doing for the past 3 seasons. Our squad is almost unrecognizable to the one from 2 seasons ago.

In theory yes...

However they are working well, I was reading an article about Ward-Prowse and Romeu and what they do as a team and the basics done very well.

Meanwhile in theory we supposedly have better players yet they cannot seem to pass a ball to a teammate.

[ciggiesnbeer]

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

Players that are never available to play and keep underperforming without mentioning names. 

I will name one. He is one of my favorite players last season but this season Bertie is a Burkina Faso player who takes occasional training sessions at Aston Villa. yeah there are reasons but there always are. I love him and I want him to come back strong but its been a LONG time since he contributed.

Edited February 14, 2022 by ciggiesnbeer

[foreveryoung]

5 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

These are not mediocre, midtable players. But even if we were, yes he should be able to adapt to them. Look at Brighton and Wolves...Southampton even. All worse squads than ours.

The solution to our problems shouldn't always be "clear out players a/b/c, bring in players x/y/z. Hell, that's largely what we've been doing for the past 3 seasons. Our squad is almost unrecognizable to the one from 2 seasons ago.

No you'v'e nailed it!

Managers seem to think if they can't get xyz player to perform he must be poor, an needs replacing. We think we have got a team of poor players, we really haven't minus a few ofcourse. Iv'e been killing off Watkin's for weeks now saying how poor he has been, most agreeing. But he is not as poor as we are seeing. Okay he is missing Grealish, but where has the graft gone, hold up play, running off the ball, he should still be able to do that, same goes for a few others, like McGinn, Man U wouldn't come calling the way he is playing at the moment, not a chance

I guess all I am saying is, we surely have good enough players to be above Southampton and Brighton for gods sake. An with them all at 100% (which we rarely see) there's no reason we shouldn't be up there with the mighty Wolves. But, an here's the big one. it's on the manager!!!

[PaulC]

No question they are all good players but theres one or two who are just not pulling their weight and Gerrard needs to address this. 

[PerryBarrPet]

10 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

These are not mediocre, midtable players. But even if we were, yes he should be able to adapt to them. Look at Brighton and Wolves...Southampton even. All worse squads than ours.

The solution to our problems shouldn't always be "clear out players a/b/c, bring in players x/y/z. Hell, that's largely what we've been doing for the past 3 seasons. Our squad is almost unrecognizable to the one from 2 seasons ago.

As often in football we should agree to disagree. We have owners and fans who want us to challenge at the top of English football. We are at the start of developing a good strong squad - Martinez, Digne, Coutinho are proven. Ramsey, Buendia and Bailey are showing signs of making the grade. Cash may make it as could Konsa but not certain. The remainder are bang on average to mediocre mid-table players who will probably never be any better - including strikers, midfield players and centre defence. If we stay as we are mid-table mediocrity will be ours. Overall our squad is no better than Brighton or Southampton and not as good as Wolves because they have two good centre midfield players - no wonder they have one of the best defensive records in the Premier League. Should Gerrard be doing better? Remember where Smith had us just before he got the sack - after Gerrard arrived we moved up the league. Recently we added Coutinho, Digne and Chambers so it’s far too soon to make judgements on their impact but we need to add more of their quality if we are to move forward.

[Mark Albrighton]

I think on their day this squad can beat 70% of the teams in the Premier League. They can also give the likes of Man City and Liverpool a good game. 

They’re not always “on their day” though. If they were they’d probably be playing for the top six. Maybe a few of them might one day go on to do that (hopefully it will be us).

The squad as a whole, I think the best they could do over a season is 8th. They’re probably more like 10th, which all things considered isn’t terrible. It’s not like ALL that money invested in the squad has been wasted because they’re not champions league ready players. We will get money back on El Ghazi, Targett, Trez, Luiz, etc if we choose to sell. A significant return as well I think. I think there’s only been a real financial loss in a couple of instances.

These players are better than 5 points against a (by their standards) patchy Chelsea and Man Utd, Everton, Brentford, Leeds and Newcastle. I think a double figures isn’t an unfair target from that run of games. 

But I think it will get better. Hopefully starting on Saturday, we’ll end up doing Newcastle another favour to slightly sour it.

[foreveryoung]

5 minutes ago, PerryBarrPet said:

As often in football we should agree to disagree. We have owners and fans who want us to challenge at the top of English football. We are at the start of developing a good strong squad - Martinez, Digne, Coutinho are proven. Ramsey, Buendia and Bailey are showing signs of making the grade. Cash may make it as could Konsa but not certain. The remainder are bang on average to mediocre mid-table players who will probably never be any better - including strikers, midfield players and centre defence. If we stay as we are mid-table mediocrity will be ours. Overall our squad is no better than Brighton or Southampton and not as good as Wolves because they have two good centre midfield players - no wonder they have one of the best defensive records in the Premier League. Should Gerrard be doing better? Remember where Smith had us just before he got the sack - after Gerrard arrived we moved up the league. Recently we added Coutinho, Digne and Chambers so it’s far too soon to make judgements on their impact but we need to add more of their quality if we are to move forward.

We need a DM there is no doubt. But Gerrard needs to be getting 100% out of the players he has before thinking of replacing them. Newcastle should have been a fairly straight forward win and we couldn't even manage that, not because we have poor players, it was because more than half the team didn't perform.

We will see how we do against Watford, cause I can see a few changes for that one. If we can't manage a win there, we may as well give up.