Steven Gerrard

[Tomaszk]

Wonder if he noticed Liverpool had changed formation the other night. It might inspire him.

Probably not. I don't think he understands what or why things happen on the pitch.

If Rangers had never come in for him, he'd still be learning the game with Liverpool U18s.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Sometimes I think the role of coach’s and managers is overstated as there’s only so much you can do with the players you have. However I do think our squad could and should be doing much better.  Which is why Gerrard will be sacked soon enough. I just think in the meantime his remit is to get us as many points as possible until such time the right man for the job is available. Hence the acceptance of this boring ‘pragmatic’ approach.  It will get us points. 

[TRO]

20 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

Purslow has indicated that European football is our aim as has Gerrard. The expectation is anything but a myth. The club have said that they were disappointed with the way the 20/21 season ended and indicated that it was one of the factors in releasing Dean. 
 

I believe that the plan in appointing SG was to raise the profile of the club more quickly and to some degree that has happened. But the point of raising the profile is surely to take the club forward both on and most importantly on the pitch. Yes it’s a results business but also a big part of the entertainment industry. We’re currently neither getting results or being entertained. Putting this all down to the ability of the players is hard to believe. Yes ultimately they play the game but you can’t seriously believe that the manager has little or no influence over the team. Otherwise why are top managers so coveted? Although more to the point why are we paying £6m a year to be bored senseless watching unattractive and nonproductive football?

Purslow, is a saleman, not a footballing man......He has his place, and does a good job, but analysing the football team, and predicting our future on the field......er No.

Dave, it might be our aim, but realistically, this team is not ready to meet that aim....blame the manager, wholly and soley all you will, but the players themselves have to shoulder some of the blame, or the people that brought them in

Its not as simple as you' re trying to make out.....but I am equally, not saying SG is blameless or gets a free pass...for what its worth, I don't think Deans coaching was at fault either, maybe his involvement in recruitment yes, but not the coaching.

but IMV it starts with the players......How many top managers baulk at joining clubs with questionable players?unless they are guaranteed huge funds.....They can't make a silk purse out a sows ear, all the time.

Its interrelated, between players and Manager it has to be.....

go through our squad and ask yourself the questions of what they can't do, individually......You cannot just coach your way out of that, coaching in the main is blending the team together, and creating a cohesion and synchronisation .....they are responsible, for their own talent.

If there first touch, breaks a move down, thats there fault........If a good cross is delivered, but they can't head it with aplomb, thats their fault......and yes, ultimately the manager has to deal with it, by finding someone, who can head it.

why do you think, Pep spends £100 mill on a player? if he could coach one himself?........do you think He could coach Erling in to his ability, he has already laughed at the prospect, tweaks, yes, but the main element is down to themselves.............Thats why recruitment is paramount.

This league, now, all the clubs have money, not like years ago, when only certain clubs , were flushed......thats why recruitment is key.

We have signed 2 top players, who we have lost through cruel injury, you can't just dismiss that, and plod on with the same narrative, as if nothing has happened......all his main buys are out with long term injury.....and we are in the meantime, back to square one.

Results, right now, come first.....cosmetics come later.

 

[Tom13]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

If there first touch, breaks a move down, thats there fault........If a good cross is delivered, but they can't head it with aplomb, thats their fault......and yes, ultimately the manager has to deal with it, by finding someone, who can head it.

Mate, come on, he picks McGinn over both Douglas Luiz and Sanson, so maybe picking the players who actually have a good touch and technique would be a start?

[nick76]

22 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Sometimes I think the role of coach’s and managers is overstated as there’s only so much you can do with the players you have. 

I think this comment has two points in it.  I think a coach/manager has a massive role on players in developing individuals, preparing as a team, tactics, cohesion, ,mentality, ideas, plays, set plays, movement styles, positioning, what to do in situations…I could keep going on.  The best managers can get the best out of players and teams, average managers can do a reasonable job and rubbish manager as we are seeing makes players look out of form, no cohesion and struggling.  I can’t emphasise how important managers and coaches are.

The second part about the players, I agree that you can only do something with certain quality of player(s).  

The player(s) have a certain level of talent but the manager/coaches is to get the best out of them as individuals and as a team and that includes so much more than just the talent but environment, information, mentality, plays and coaching to name just a few areas.

So I think your point is in two parts.

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

Purslow, is a saleman, not a footballing man......He has his place, and does a good job, but analysing the football team, and predicting our future on the field......er No.

We can tell that from him picking Gerrard to manage us

edit: and not firing him now

Edited October 6, 2022 by nick76

[Vive_La_Villa]

17 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I think this comment has two points in it.  I think a coach/manager has a massive role on players in developing individuals, preparing as a team, tactics, cohesion, ,mentality, ideas, plays, set plays, movement styles, positioning, what to do in situations…I could keep going on.  The best managers can get the best out of players and teams, average managers can do a reasonable job and rubbish manager as we are seeing makes players look out of form, no cohesion and struggling.  I can’t emphasise how important managers and coaches are.

The second part about the players, I agree that you can only do something with certain quality of player(s).  

The player(s) have a certain level of talent but the manager/coaches is to get the best out of them as individuals and as a team and that includes so much more than just the talent but environment, information, mentality, plays and coaching to name just a few areas.

So I think your point is in two parts.

Fair enough but you could argue that boring football that gets points on the board is still down to coaching. We have had 1 shot on target against us in the last 2 games so while it’s shit, boring to watch and never sustainable for a team wanting to push on. it’s still been kind of effective and down to coaching.  

They haven’t looked lost in the last 2 games. They have looked very hard to break down. It’s just very ugly on the eye!

Edit : I don’t think Gerrard is a rubbish manager. Just a very average one. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Vive_La_Villa

[TRO]

19 hours ago, viivvaa66 said:

If we are going for all if what if …

• Everton had chances to equalised at the end
• ManC had enough chances to score 4 or 5
• Leeds had some good chances at the end of the game to win it.

Then we would have the same point total as Forest. We have 8 points after 8 matches, it could have been more and it could have been less, but 8 is the reality and it don’t matter what takes place in an alternative universe.

Even worse then our points total is that we have only scored 6, and that is against some shockingly bad teams. Not scoring goals will relegate us. 

it depends if you glass is half full or half empty.....but yes, equally plausible.

[TRO]

44 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

Mate, come on, he picks McGinn over both Douglas Luiz and Sanson, so maybe picking the players who actually have a good touch and technique would be a start?

Listen, don't take picking out one attribute literally, it was just an example......my point was players can scupper any system, if the don't execute it properly, Gerrard or any manager.

So you think Sanson, is going to make the difference, we are looking for?

As for Luiz, he is one of our better players right now, so should play imo.....unfortunately, he has no desire to stay with us.......that alone, could divide opinion.

[TRO]

47 minutes ago, nick76 said:

We can tell that from him picking Gerrard to manage us

edit: and not firing him now

Nick, if he was going to do it, after the Bournemouth game, might have gained him support.....but not now.

 

[TRO]

On 05/10/2022 at 19:22, ciggiesnbeer said:

Yeah possibly my expectations were too high. But for a club that talked Europe and top half getting 7 points from 5 games against relegation fodder is poor.

I have seen only a handful of games since we got promoted, that would suggest we could achieve European football......you only have to focus on the play itself, and study the players in the squad, to know, we don't have enough quality, for European Football.

I am all for talking things up......but we are short of the talent to get European Football.....one or two, maybe, but generally no.

I honestly don't think Pochettino, or Tuchel , without new players, would get this squad, in to Europe.

I could be wrong.

Edited October 6, 2022 by TRO

[DaveAV1]

57 minutes ago, TRO said:

Purslow, is a saleman, not a footballing man......He has his place, and does a good job, but analysing the football team, and predicting our future on the field......er No.

Dave, it might be our aim, but realistically, this team is not ready to meet that aim....blame the manager, wholly and soley all you will, but the players themselves have to shoulder some of the blame, or the people that brought them in

Its not as simple as you' re trying to make out.....but I am equally, not saying SG is blameless or gets a free pass...for what its worth, I don't think Deans coaching was at fault either, maybe his involvement in recruitment yes, but not the coaching.

but IMV it starts with the players......How many top managers baulk at joining clubs with questionable players?unless they are guaranteed huge funds.....They can't make a silk purse out a sows ear, all the time.

Its interrelated, between players and Manager it has to be.....

go through our squad and ask yourself the questions of what they can't do, individually......You cannot just coach your way out of that, coaching in the main is blending the team together, and creating a cohesion and synchronisation .....they are responsible, for their own talent.

If there first touch, breaks a move down, thats there fault........If a good cross is delivered, but they can't head it with aplomb, thats their fault......and yes, ultimately the manager has to deal with it, by finding someone, who can head it.

why do you think, Pep spends £100 mill on a player? if he could coach one himself?........do you think He could coach Erling in to his ability, he has already laughed at the prospect, tweaks, yes, but the main element is down to themselves.............Thats why recruitment is paramount.

This league, now, all the clubs have money, not like years ago, when only certain clubs , were flushed......thats why recruitment is key.

We have signed 2 top players, who we have lost through cruel injury, you can't just dismiss that, and plod on with the same narrative, as if nothing has happened......all his main buys are out with long term injury.....and we are in the meantime, back to square one.

Results, right now, come first.....cosmetics come later.

 

I don’t dispute any of the above, most things in life are complex. Partly down to the players partly the manager I’d agree. However the players can only really effect their own game, albeit that has influence over their teammates too, whereas, in the main, the manager can, or at least should, have influence over all the players, positive or negative. 
 

Yes somethings are down to luck, good or bad but it’s amazing how the best managers always seem to find a way to be lucky. 
 

Pep signs £100m players because he can. Why do you think Man City signed Pep? Me or you could just as easily pay huge amounts of money for top players if the manager made no difference. 

As for results first, cosmetics later, when are one of those two things going to start?

[jjaacckk91]

I think it's fair to put some blame on the players, if the players were clearly not working hard and doing the hard yards then I think it's fair to put more of the blame on the players. 

But when I see a group of players who are running, working and putting in the effort but simply don't seem to be coordinated, play at a snails pace with the ball with no noticeable patterns and very limited movement I think it's more than fair to put the majority of the blame for that at the manager/coaches door.

To have no identity and be playing the most mind numbing dull football after 12 months(in football terms) in the job is purely the managers fault.

Finishing wherever in the table all I really care about is enjoying watching Aston villa play football, and under Steven Gerrard I simply don't and for me that is the only real metric that matters. 

[Keyblade]

There's no excuse to be playing like this after 12 months on the job and close to 100m spent + a substantial increase in the wage bill. Absolutely zero. 

[AvonVillain]

11 minutes ago, jjaacckk91 said:

I think it's fair to put some blame on the players, if the players were clearly not working hard and doing the hard yards then I think it's fair to put more of the blame on the players. 

But when I see a group of players who are running, working and putting in the effort but simply don't seem to be coordinated, play at a snails pace with the ball with no noticeable patterns and very limited movement I think it's more than fair to put the majority of the blame for that at the manager/coaches door.

I think the players, after that initial "wow" moment, discovered pretty quickly why great former players often don't make the grade in management, and simply don't believe in what they're being asked to do.

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I don’t dispute any of the above, most things in life are complex. Partly down to the players partly the manager I’d agree. However the players can only really effect their own game, albeit that has influence over their teammates too, whereas, in the main, the manager can, or at least should, have influence over all the players, positive or negative. 
 

Yes somethings are down to luck, good or bad but it’s amazing how the best managers always seem to find a way to be lucky. 
 

Pep signs £100m players because he can. Why do you think Man City signed Pep? Me or you could just as easily pay huge amounts of money for top players if the manager made no difference. 

As for results first, cosmetics later, when are one of those two things going to start?

I have never intimated, managers, don't matter. I am committed to saying, they are important........But I think, I can distinguish, between manager fault, and a player who has failed to do, what HE should do.

The best managers, always gravitate to the best players too....thats another way, they get lucky....They surround themselves, with good quality.

Pep still has to convince the paymasters that £100 mill or so, is a good investment......if he could coach his way through his job, everytime, produce his own, and nothing else, he wouldn't be committed to that kind of pressure.

I think it has started, albeit with a cruel injury list......Now we need to sustain it, that's the questionable bit.

Man City, Southampton and Leeds is just a start........we have cocked up against worse teams than them in the earlier exchanges.....SG has admitted, some of his failings, hopefully, we can now recover.

[TRO]

39 minutes ago, jjaacckk91 said:

I think it's fair to put some blame on the players, if the players were clearly not working hard and doing the hard yards then I think it's fair to put more of the blame on the players. 

But when I see a group of players who are running, working and putting in the effort but simply don't seem to be coordinated, play at a snails pace with the ball with no noticeable patterns and very limited movement I think it's more than fair to put the majority of the blame for that at the manager/coaches door.

To have no identity and be playing the most mind numbing dull football after 12 months(in football terms) in the job is purely the managers fault.

Finishing wherever in the table all I really care about is enjoying watching Aston villa play football, and under Steven Gerrard I simply don't and for me that is the only real metric that matters. 

For me, and this is just one random example.

When I see a striker, fail on so many occasions, to score, or even look like scoring, I question the player.

When I see a striker fail to attack aerial balls or get headers on target, I question the player.

When I see, opportunities, go begging, and the Nous of being in the right place, being questioned, I look at the player.

Managers, do have a part to play, not a doubt in my mind......but the confusion, between manager responsibity and player responsiblity, needs to be examined.

If you are a striker and you don't score goals......you may as well be a policeman, that don't catch criminals.

The managers, can't play the game, for them.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Sometimes I think the role of coach’s and managers is overstated as there’s only so much you can do with the players you have. However I do think our squad could and should be doing much better.  Which is why Gerrard will be sacked soon enough. I just think in the meantime his remit is to get us as many points as possible until such time the right man for the job is available. Hence the acceptance of this boring ‘pragmatic’ approach.  It will get us points. 

He may well get the sack, eventually, they all do.....and I agree with your comments.

For me, some get the sack as convenience, when some of the issues lie, elsewhere....but Managers at all levels are easy targets, even scapegoats, for other incompetencies, within clubs.

If Dean, had of gone "Pragmatic" or call it what you will......I wouldn't have been so quick to accept, the position of him leaving....thats what, he should have done.

No, club can preside over continually losing games......I hear the calls for entertainment, with empathy.....but there are other pressing needs first.

However, I am not in favour, as a rule, of constantly changing managers......that in itself, highlights a flaw in the system....it also highlights 5 hour Interviews are purely, veneer.

I don't see much of a future, of us playing Russian Roulette with the managers chair......I don't see where sustainabilty comes from, it takes time to build, to be keep pulling it asunder.

 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

52 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

There's no excuse to be playing like this after 12 months on the job and close to 100m spent + a substantial increase in the wage bill. Absolutely zero. 

Agree and it’s clear Gerrard has has now had to resort to a  short term approach now to keep his job as long as possible by getting points on the board.  It’s back to what Smith did to keep us in the league.

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

 

Edit : I don’t think Gerrard is a rubbish manager. Just a very average one. 

Really? He won a 2 team league vs Neil Lennon