Steven Gerrard

[leighavfc]

I would be interested to see how Gerrard's stats stack up against Deano's 36 or however many games in 2021 when Stevie reaches that many games in charge with us. That will be a fair indicator 

[nick76]

21 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said:

Surely the fairest thing is to look at the whole picture not just the part of the picture you want to make your argument. He started well, then we slumped, then hit some form again, then slumped again. Hopefully we’ll win a couple more. So we’re basically an inconsistent mid table team. We know this. He needs to do better but taking out the good run to make him/us appear worse isn’t right either. Like I said, a new manager bounce doesn’t automatically happen to everyone. It shouldn’t be discounted.

I’m not sure I agree, for any manager.  Basically how far do you go back when you assess form like I pointed out for Smith. 
 

Anyway stats can say whatever they want, just sick of expecting very little game after game. I hope next season is better because the last 18 months has been more bad than good under both managers and I’m seeing no difference between the two.

[VillaParkAvenue]

1 minute ago, leighavfc said:

Clear improvement??? How exactly? Yes we stopped the rot but I don't think there was anything to be cheering about performance wise.. still looked as disjointed as most of the performances under Gerrard... Leicester were half arsed at best also.. there was no improvement bar us taking a draw away against a Leicester side equally as abject as we were.....

I didn’t see yesterday as an improvement either. The reason I have had some hope for Gerrard have been the games where it’s seemed as we have some attacking plan starting to fall into place, like in parts of the Man U games, the Southampton game and first half against Spurs.

Yesterday was a return to no pressing, sitting back and hoping not to lose. Much like the earliest Gerrard games against Brighton and Palace, where we concentrated on keeping the shape and had about 30-35 percent possession.

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, useless said:

Don't really understand all this talk of being apathetic, it's what you'd expect from spoilt Man City fans after being so used to winning that it stops meaning anything to them, we haven't even had any success yet.

Why go to the extreme?  

The apathy is due to the poor football, the lack of drive in the team, not wanting the ball, not winning 50/50s, simple passes, constant mistakes, players regressing, turgid football…with only a few bright spots like the 3 wins a few months back.  

The apathy is because 18 months of poor football under both managers with the latter seen as an “upgrade” apparently but coaching of the current players has done nothing, in fact in some cases could be argued regressed.  

The apathy isn’t about not constantly winning but about the team turning up, fighting, determined, doing the basics competently and just giving us something to give us hope each week.

The apathy comes from the fans doing their part, turning up every week, supporting every week and getting the same thing every week. That in a run of games we all talk about that the only decent points we are likely to get are from relegation level teams.  That’s why there is a lot of apathy around, not because we aren’t Man City!

[leighavfc]

10 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

I didn’t see yesterday as an improvement either. The reason I have had some hope for Gerrard have been the games where it’s seemed as we have some attacking plan starting to fall into place, like in parts of the Man U games, the Southampton game and first half against Spurs.

Yesterday was a return to no pressing, sitting back and hoping not to lose. Much like the earliest Gerrard games against Brighton and Palace, where we concentrated on keeping the shape and had about 30-35 percent possession.

I do agree to extent and some of the attacking play has been good but I would also say there has been a lot more crap than good under Gerrard so far. With our squad there is no excuses for me... What was it Gerrard said when he came in... We give them everything and take away the excuses... He is going to regret saying that in my opinion 

[leighavfc]

11 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Why go to the extreme?  

The apathy is due to the poor football, the lack of drive in the team, not wanting the ball, not winning 50/50s, simple passes, constant mistakes, players regressing, turgid football…with only a few bright spots like the 3 wins a few months back.  

The apathy is because 18 months of poor football under both managers with the latter seen as an “upgrade” apparently but coaching of the current players has done nothing, in fact in some cases could be argued regressed.  

The apathy isn’t about not constantly winning but about the team turning up, fighting, determined, doing the basics competently and just giving us something to give us hope each week.

The apathy comes from the fans doing their part, turning up every week, supporting every week and getting the same thing every week. That in a run of games we all talk about that the only decent points we are likely to get are from relegation level teams.  That’s why there is a lot of apathy around, not because we aren’t Man City!

Spot on! 

[The_Steve]

1 hour ago, useless said:

Being his team is not just about new signings, it's also about him having a full pre season with them. The phrase it's 'not his team' is often used when talking about new managers at clubs, that doesn't mean to say that people expect that new manager to sign an whole squad or team before it becomes 'his team'.

If we imagine a different scenario where we appointed a different manager and that manager had done incredibly well up until now, people would still be using the phrase 'it's not his team', it's just another way of saying that a manager hasn't been able to bring in his own players yet, and again doesn't mean that he has to rebuild the whole squad or even the starting eleven to become 'his team'.

In the summer I'm guessing we sign four or five new players, hopefully pretty good ones too, improvements on what we already have, in addition Gerrard will have had a pre season, as well as whatever he might hae learned from this season, so will be expected to do much better, there will be no excuses.

People have talked themselves into some grand conspiracy that Purslow gave a job to his mate Stevie. Despite all evidence to the contrary. Gerrard will have the same pressures Smith did. There are circumstances that dictate a lot of how a team moves forward and we had so much upheaval in the summer with covid that it was going to be a factor also.
 

It’s very clear that we are transitioning towards a different style of play and what we want to build the club around. NSWE are building big plans for the youth system and expanding the stadium. It’s very clear to me and I’m sure many others that they have a clear idea moving forward - which won’t necessarily include Gerrard if he cannot turn it around. Contrary to the idea that Purslow is merely a shield for him. We had to massively invest in a squad that could not just compete but stay in the league. We did that. Just. Than we stuttered and slowed. Yes, Smith got us to 11th, he also only had 40 points from 36 games. We’d hit a ceiling. As have some of the players. It’s very clear the issues are mental as much as ability.

The squad clear out will probably be 6-7 names but it doesn’t mean we are going on a huge spending spree. The club identified shortcomings at left back and moved quickly. January is a very hard window unless you throw money at everything. New players to solve those gaps along with our promising young players will make it easier for the coaching staff to move forward. The ambitions sadly go beyond the ability of certain players, that’s not a negative: just how football goes. Gerrard has only had 21 games to try to turn the rot around, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that a poor run of form is a collective issue. Equally, nor could anyone anticipate the shocking regression and loss of form in key players, injuries, and mistakes. Gerrard and his staff speak of big ideas and ways to improve us, he should be afforded a pre-season and summer to work with the players they feel will move us forward.

Ultimately, we are comfortably lower mid-table but we won’t progress with what we have unless some new players are brought in. We’ve got a surplus of players who won’t fit the systems nor indeed the ability. It happens. I trust NSWE and the board because of where they’ve gotten us. Nothing to me to is an aberration outside a very focused and clear plan. Yes, there are growing pains and poor performances and tactical questions. But there are positives too. Because the ceiling we’ve hit is an issue it doesn’t mean another huge spending spree. Especially when we factor potential outgoings. It’s about having a squad the management trust to push us forward. Not simply one to keep us in the same position we are now. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by The_Steve

[jacketspuds]

I get the frustration with Gerrard, but I genuinely believe that any manager would struggle with our defence and midfield options. We were a goal away from going down with those same options in our first season back in the league.

I know it’s not everything, and Gerrard’s stubbornness is starting to grate on me a little bit too. However, the club has not addressed crucial areas of our team in numerous windows through failed attempts at Ward-Prowse, Smith Rowe, Bentancur and Bissouma.

I think Smith would still be our manager if this was sorted last summer.

In his first window here Gerrard attracted Coutinho and Digne to the club, two players that I don’t think we would have been able to bring in with Smith in charge. I’m sure this will prove to be a positive in the summer as well.

And I get the arguments against the whole squad “overhaul” piece, but maybe we do actually need one now that we are once again an established Premier League team.

[villanmac]

See what happens in the summer when the centre midfield is sorted out and get a proper holding midfielder in who can retain possession and put a foot in. Without that it's futile imo. 

Even the top teams have a couple of proper holding mids in the lineup every game regardless of how weak the oppo is:

Rodri Fernandinho

Henderson, Fabinho

Jorginho, Kante

Bentancur, Hoijberg

Leicester yesterday have Tielemans and Ndidi usually.

We are **** about with Luiz, Mcginn and Ramsey, Nakamba who can MAYBE do one thing ok but not the other but essentially can't control the middle of the park.

Give him a chance to sort that out, if he does and we are still shite then you can write off Gerrard, Coutinho, Bailey etc imo. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by villanmac

[Davkaus]

14 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

 

In his first window here Gerrard attracted Coutinho and Digne to the club, two players that I don’t think we would have been able to bring in with Smith in charge.

We were 14th in the league when we made these signings. I think we were all excited about them as big statements of intent to let us end the season with a good run. Hasn't quite worked out like that.

[Xela]

Some people were clearly against Gerrard from day one and will never accept him. They've spent the last 2 weeks, before yesterdays game, with us not playing, repeatedly posting the same things on here with other fans who think the same way. Like an anti Gerrard echo chamber. 

I thought Smith should have been given more time but could understand that he sacked as we were averaging about 1.0 ppg in his last 35-40 games or so. We were brilliant at the beginning of last season under him but Jack's initial injury knocked the wind out of our sails then his departure set us back. We also appear to have made a few poor signings in the summer. So, Gerrard came in. I wasn't sold on him to be honest, I thought Potter should have been offered it, but prepared to give Gerrard a chance. It's been ok so far. Not brilliant and not awful. Few good games and a few poor ones. Averaging about 1.3 ppg, which is adequate for now. Will need to improve next season for sure, but he deserves a chance to do that IMO. 

As for a squad overhaul. We're generally a mid table team with a mid table squad. We do need to strengthen if we are to progress into the top 8 or top 6 (which will be an absolutely massive ask). 

 

[jacketspuds]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

We were 14th in the league when we made these signings. I think we were all excited about them as big statements of intent to let us end the season with a good run. Hasn't quite worked out like that.

Absolutely. The pedigree of player was fantastic, it was just in positions that we didn’t really need at the time. Hopefully the next window will see us actually sign players in positions that the whole world knows are weak areas of our squad.

Still think we stand a better chance of bringing in the level of player we need with Gerrard as manager.

[VillaParkAvenue]

6 minutes ago, villanmac said:

See what happens in the summer when the centre midfield is sorted out and get a proper holding midfielder in who can retain possession and put a foot in. Without that it's futile imo. 

Even the top teams have a couple of proper holding mids in the lineup every game regardless of how weak the oppo is:

Rodri Fernandinho

Henderson, Fabinho

Jorginho, Kante

Bentancur, Hoijberg

Leicester yesterday have Tielemans and Ndidi usually.

We are **** about with Luiz, Mcginn and Ramsey, Nakamba who can MAYBE do one thing ok but not the other but essentially can't control the middle of the park.

Give him a chance to sort that out, if he does and we are still shite then you can write off Gerrard, Coutinho, Bailey etc imo. 

I agree we need a good DM and possibly a CM too, ideally they would be very good with the ball under press.

But the top teams have better players than us in all positions. Possession isn’t something one or two holding midfielders takes care of, it’s a team thing (and a coaching thing).

[thunderball]

Gerrard did improve us when he first arrived, so not sure what’s gone wrong since? But what I do know is he is a winner and as a player that was amongst the very best, and played for England, and a one club man at a club with a winning mentality full of at worst very good players, this group of players is clearly some way short of a team wanting to compete at the top of the league. He knows that and has made it clear in the politest, most diplomatically acceptable way. I think Lange and Purslow probably know it too and it doesn’t harm to have that underlined by a new face. 
 

We do need better players all over the field. We have quickly transitioned from 5th place Championship with basically no full time professionals in a new league, to a talented mid table squad underperforming (but in good company as that is the story of the middle of the Premier League). Gerrard is only partly to blame for that, but these players are not performing anywhere near their potential and that on them individually. Injuries and international breaks have been unkind to us too. It’s been a messy, disrupted season.

Not convinced that Coutinho will stay, but he improves us. We need a new midfield, and a decent forward. Ings should be good enough but has disappointed. 
 

We also need two new very good CBs, I would replace Konsa, keep Mings next season but look to upgrade thereafter. 
 

In fairness we are still rebuilding and the players have mainly improved in value so on balance it’s been positive and the objectives met. This season was always a challenge given the Grealish/Smith transition. I look forward to a decent summer transfer window and preseason before I judge Gerrard.

Edited April 24, 2022 by thunderball

[S-Platt]

I am not convinced so far I have been impressed in some games obviously ones we win!  Best we have played was 1st half against Spurs but then lost the game 0-4 as we did not take our chances.

I am clinging to this.   Arsenal were utter shite last year Arteta was bobbins but has been given time integrated some good youth players bought some players that believed in his methods and got rid of the ones that don't.  Now playing good football upto 4th.

Gerrard will be given time as he should be.  Pre season a few new signings.   A full squad including the loan players back to mould coherent team.

Last 6 games he can bring some of those kids into the mix and hopefully win some games people will get behind him.

Norwich is a massive game really chance to show what we can do.

[nick76]

8 minutes ago, Xela said:

Some people were clearly against Gerrard from day one and will never accept him. They've spent the last 2 weeks, before yesterdays game, with us not playing, repeatedly posting the same things on here with other fans who think the same way. Like an anti Gerrard echo chamber. 

Some are anti Gerrard but very few…most are just reacting to what we are seeing.  You mentioned 1.3 ppg but the last 15 games has been 1.0 ppg the same as Smith and just like the Smith comments and the general poor play fans are discussing it.  It doesn’t mean this is an anti Gerrard echo chamber.

[onmeedson]

Stevie Gerrard is learning a great deal about his players now being out of their comfort zone and the mental strength it takes to keep battling in tough times for the team. It is better to address this now from a relatively safe position rather than let it drag into the new season and prepare us for a pre season with the personal he wants and fits his view of the type of style and commitment he desires. 

[rodders0223]

44 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Some are anti Gerrard but very few…most are just reacting to what we are seeing.  You mentioned 1.3 ppg but the last 15 games has been 1.0 ppg the same as Smith and just like the Smith comments and the general poor play fans are discussing it.  It doesn’t mean this is an anti Gerrard echo chamber.

PPG and all the stats people want...the football is awful.i don't want to go to VP I don't want to renew my season ticket.

We go out with no energy no vigour no attacking intent. Sure we beat the most open team in the world in Southampton and bagged a few against a ridiculous Leeds side at the time.

Aside from that and a few results it's been utterly utterly turgid.

Lambert football with 30m footballers.

[Demitri_C]

Im just not 100% sold. I dont know what our identity is as he tells us. What concerns me is how poor we look as a attacking threat with a squad of dangerous attacking players.

I think our counter attacking and setpeices have generally got worse. Im do have massive reservations about this appointment i must admit

[Xela]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Some are anti Gerrard but very few…most are just reacting to what we are seeing.  You mentioned 1.3 ppg but the last 15 games has been 1.0 ppg the same as Smith and just like the Smith comments and the general poor play fans are discussing it.  It doesn’t mean this is an anti Gerrard echo chamber.

even Smith had bad spells early on (2 wins in 14 in the promotion season) before the 10 wins in a row. Managers need time IMO. Call me crazy! 

Thats why i think Gerrard should be given time and a summer window.