The next manager of Aston Villa

[maqroll]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

What I like about Favre is he's got good record of dragging underperforming clubs from mid table or lower and getting them into europe pretty quickly.

He did an incredible job at 'Gladbach and did pretty well at Nice (indeed better than Vieria did). Dortmund was so-so, won a cup but didn't really challenge Bayern seriously. Mind you was same for Tuchel aswell.

He's proven and the sort who'd quickly get respect of squad I think so if he's seriously on our radar I'd go for him all day long over Gerrard.

He also finished 4th in Bundesliga with Hertha Berlin in 08/09. Poor start to next season saw him sacked.

You've sold me. Favre in!

[Indigo]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

What I like about Favre is he's got good record of dragging underperforming clubs from mid table or lower and getting them into europe pretty quickly.

He did an incredible job at 'Gladbach and did pretty well at Nice (indeed better than Vieria did). Dortmund was so-so, won a cup but didn't really challenge Bayern seriously. Mind you was same for Tuchel aswell.

He's proven and the sort who'd quickly get respect of squad I think so if he's seriously on our radar I'd go for him all day long over Gerrard.

He also finished 4th in Bundesliga with Hertha Berlin in 08/09. Poor start to next season saw him sacked.

He had Dortmund within 2 points of Bayern come season's end to be fair, the closest anyone has come to them in this near 10 year run of championships that they're in. Definitely went pear-shaped the following year but that first season at Dortmund was a resounding success where he was very much credited for getting them back on track. As much as it can be used as a knock against him his time there still had a number of positives and as you say his record elsewhere speaks for itself. Best finish for Nice in decades, completely revolutionised Gladbach to the point where they still now at absolute worst at least compete for Europe etc. Nothing is guaranteed in football but I don't think there's a realistic appointment out there that would make me so confident we could get going again as Favre would.

[villakram]

I'd prefer we pay up to get Christophe Galtier if we were to go French again. He's a guy with real underdog pedigree.  

Tough market right now. At least being linked with Gerrard is much much better than being linked with Lampard.

[TRO]

I just hope we don't try to penny pinch.

The one job to get right, is the manager/Head coach.

[TomC]

5 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

It's ok to respect Deano, be grateful for what he's done, and be hopeful about what comes next.

Wes Edens has got previous for building a successful sporting institution. It's hard, but we have to trust the process.

Interesting to see the parallels...

Wes Edens appointed Jason Kidd as his first head coach after he bought the Milwaukee team. Kidd inherited a team that had gone 15-67...sort of like Deano inheriting a team that was mid-table in the Championship.

Kidd led a big improvement with a 41-41 record his first season (sort of like Deano getting us promoted). He relapsed a bit with a 33-49 record his second year (sort of like barely avoiding relegation in the PL Deano's second year). He went a respectable 42-40 his third year and qualified for the playoffs (sort of like Deano getting us to mid-table last year). He got off to a 22-20 start his fourth year, at the end of which was a streak where he lost 4 games of 5 (sound a little familiar?). The progress had stopped. The general manager (similar role to Purslow's) said at the time: "If something is inevitable, why wait?...We just felt that we got to a point in the season where this team could do more and could perform at a different level in a different way..."

Of course, one big difference is that Milwaukee got superstar player Giannis Antetokounmpo to stay despite temptations to go to bigger teams, whereas we lost Grealish.

Anyway, what did Edens next? Hired Mike Budenholzer, who had just been fired after a decent but essentially undistinguished five years (213-197 record) in Atlanta. The general manager, upon hiring him, said that Budenholzer "has shown a special ability to teach and develop players. [Emphasis added.] His leadership, basketball intellect, championship-level experience and communication skills make him the right fit to take our team to the next level." That could sound like usual press release stuff, but it also could say something about what Edens looks for. One journalist noted that "what Budenholzer brings to the Bucks is a modern system. The biggest criticism of former coach, Jason Kidd, was that his system was overly aggressive on defense and didn't fit today's era of basketball." [Emphasis added.] As you probably know, Budenholzer led the team to a championship last year.

So, my guess? Edens is going to want someone with experience, but will be looking closely at particular traits. Who among the most likely candidates has a reputation for developing players? (Particularly important given our prospects.) Who is up-to-date on the latest tactical trends? That's where I'd put my money if I were a betting man. Of course, no guarantees that he's going to react the same way at Villa as he did in Milwaukee. Furthermore, he has a partner, and by some accounts, Sawiris is more involved and knows the game better. But it will be interesting to see if the parallels continue.

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by TomC
Punctuation fix

[VillaHatesMe]

No idea who the next manager will be, but if this club's ownership is serious about what it has said about it's vision and plan, I can't imagine it'll be a manager without UCL experience. That's why I think we're more in the Favre/Fonseca pool than the Gerrard/Hassenhuttl pool.

[VillaHatesMe]

22 minutes ago, TomC said:

Interesting to see the parallels...

Wes Edens appointed Jason Kidd as his first head coach after he bought the Milwaukee team. Kidd inherited a team that had gone 15-67...sort of like Deano inheriting a team that was mid-table in the Championship.

Kidd led a big improvement with a 41-41 record his first season (sort of like Deano getting us promoted). He relapsed a bit with a 33-49 record his second year (sort of like barely avoiding relegation in the PL Deano's second year). He went a respectable 42-40 his third year and qualified for the playoffs (sort of like Deano getting us to mid-table last year). He got off to a 22-20 start his fourth year, at the end of which was a streak where he lost 4 games of 5 (sound a little familiar?). The progress had stopped. The general manager (similar role to Purslow's) said at the time: "If something is inevitable, why wait?...We just felt that we got to a point in the season where this team could do more and could perform at a different level in a different way..."

Of course, one big difference is that Milwaukee got superstar player Giannis Antetokounmpo to stay despite temptations to go to bigger teams, whereas we lost Grealish.

Anyway, what did Edens next? Hired Mike Budenholzer, who had just been fired after a decent but essentially undistinguished five years (213-197 record) in Atlanta. The general manager, upon hiring him, said that Budenholzer "has shown a special ability to teach and develop players. [Emphasis added.] His leadership, basketball intellect, championship-level experience and communication skills make him the right fit to take our team to the next level." That could sound like usual press release stuff, but it also could say something about what Edens looks for. One journalist noted that "what Budenholzer brings to the Bucks is a modern system. The biggest criticism of former coach, Jason Kidd, was that his system was overly aggressive on defense and didn't fit today's era of basketball." [Emphasis added.] As you probably know, Budenholzer led the team to a championship last year.

So, my guess? Edens is going to want someone with experience, but will be looking closely at particular traits. Who among the most likely candidates has a reputation for developing players? (Particularly important given our prospects.) Who is up-to-date on the latest tactical trends? That's where I'd put my money if I were a betting man. Of course, no guarantees that he's going to react the same way at Villa as he did in Milwaukee. Furthermore, he has a partner, and by some accounts, Sawiris is more involved and knows the game better. But it will be interesting to see if the parallels continue.

 

 

 

I respect the amount of research you did here, but coaching in the NBA is a lot different than managing a soccer club. The NBA is very much a player's league. It's not about tactics as much as it's about having the better players. The biggest different between Milwaukee being 15-67 one year and 41-41 the next wasn't Jason Kidd. It was Giannis, Khris Middleton and Michael Carter-Williams all making a big leap in their second professional season. The next season, when Milwaukee didn't catch anybody by surprise anymore because Giannis became a known commodity, Kidd's coaching wasn't worth anything.

It's also important to point out that Giannis was the 15th pick in the NBA Draft as a rookie and seen as more of a project because not much was known about him and how he'd acclimate to the NBA. Then in that second season, it became pretty clear that Milwaukee won the lottery with him. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by VillaHatesMe

[TomC]

8 minutes ago, VillaHatesMe said:

I respect the amount of research you did here, but coaching in the NBA is a lot different than managing a soccer club. The NBA is very much a player's league. It's not about tactics as much as it's about having the better players. The biggest different between Milwaukee being 15-67 one year and 41-41 the next wasn't Jason Kidd. It was Giannis, Khris Middleton and Michael Carter-Williams all making a big leap in their second professional season. The next season, when Milwaukee didn't catch anybody by surprise anymore because Giannis became a known commodity, Kidd's coaching wasn't worth anything.

Point well taken, but just because it's a players' league doesn't mean that coaching and systems are worth nothing. Think of Phil Jackson and the triangle offense for example...

At any rate, I was focusing more on the way Edens thinks...he had about the same amount of patience with Kidd as he did with Deano. Now, is he going to look for the same traits in the next manager as he did with Budenholzer?

[VillaHatesMe]

9 minutes ago, TomC said:

Point well taken, but just because it's a players' league doesn't mean that coaching and systems are worth nothing. Think of Phil Jackson and the triangle offense for example...

At any rate, I was focusing more on the way Edens thinks...he had about the same amount of patience with Kidd as he did with Deano. Now, is he going to look for the same traits in the next manager as he did with Budenholzer?

For sure. But now I feel the need to point out that Phil Jackson and the triangle offense never won anything without Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant or Shaq on the roster. It wasn't the offense, it was coaching four of the greatest players of all time during the primes of their respective careers. 

[TomC]

On the subject of tactics, I read up a bit about what Gerrard does with Rangers...

Usually runs a 4-3-3, though not always. The midfield 3 and front 3 both tend to be narrow, and he likes to use overlapping fullbacks to bring the ball forward, so you would expect Targett and Cash to continue to do that if we hire him. Likes a high-energy press, though sometimes more of a mid-block than a high press: press the outlet passes and in midfield, not the centre backs. Presses with 5 men. Cleaned up the defence quite a bit, which helped win the title.

I'd be curious to hear from anyone on here who has actually watched Rangers for your impressions about the tactics...

[Keyblade]

Whoever we get, I hope it's someone who can literally whip these boys into shape. I know preseason was terrible, but we're so far behind on conditioning, our players look a shadow of their former selves. 

[maqroll]

8 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Whoever we get, I hope it's someone who can literally whip these boys into shape. I know preseason was terrible, but we're so far behind on conditioning, our players look a shadow of their former selves. 

This. We need to jettison whoever the S&C coach is. Hire someone who better incorporates a preventative philosophy. 

[Rossco76]

Of course take this with a pinch of salt as it all ended up going horribly wrong for Favre at Dortmund with a complete defensive collapse apparently, but I found these two videos quite interesting...
 

Part one above and Part two....
 

 

[Tom13]

24 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Whoever we get, I hope it's someone who can literally whip these boys into shape. I know preseason was terrible, but we're so far behind on conditioning, our players look a shadow of their former selves. 

Maybe go for Clint Eastwood?

[ciggiesnbeer]

9 minutes ago, Rossco76 said:

Of course take this with a pinch of salt as it all ended up going horribly wrong for Favre at Dortmund with a complete defensive collapse apparently, but I found these two videos quite interesting...
 

Part one above and Part two....
 

 

This is really good, cheers!

[maqroll]

Favre. If it is to be said.

 

[Rossco76]

10 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

This is really good, cheers!

No worries man. Of course I also found some clips after he was given the boot by Dortmund which weren't so complimentary!

The first thing that sprang to mind watching that first vid though was Watkins, McGinn, Bailey, Buendia, Traore, Chukwuemeka, Aaron Ramsey, Louie Barry would all fit that quick direct counter-attacking style of football.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Rossco76

[ciggiesnbeer]

1 minute ago, Rossco76 said:

No worries man. Of course I also found some clips after he was given the boot by Dortmund which weren't so complimentary!

The first thing that sprang to mind watching that first vid though was Watkins, Bailey, Buendia, Traore, Chukwuemeka, Aaron Ramsey, Louie Barry would all fit that quick direct counter-attacking style of football.

I thought exactly the same! We have the perfect players for his style of play.

[Kiwivillan]

7 hours ago, hippo said:

Surely Nuno ticks more boxes than anyone else ? 

 

7 hours ago, Tayls said:

limited. It worked at Wolves because of the Portuguese links they had. Also had an entire squad and coaching staff from there as well. Very comfortable environment. Don’t understand why it all came to an end to be honest. 

Portuguese links = total rort with Mendes dodgy deals that should've seen them sanctioned. 

I laughed when he went to Spurs then laughed some more when they were top of table with 9pts after 3 games and Spurs fans were rightfully complaining because Nuno is shite

[Robtaylor200]

Trouble with Stevie G is that we would have to start liking him. There again we got to like JT after years of slagging him off