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Team shape, tactics and personnel


MaVilla
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1 minute ago, Pimlico_Villa said:

I wouldn’t mind seeing Engels play in MF. He adds size and power and on occasion has looked composed on the ball. Current MF is so light on physicality and ball playing capability. 

If we went down the route of playing a CH in midfield, I would go for Konsa. He looks more athletic 

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14 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

What does Luiz actually do I keep asking myself?

But this is said of every central midfielder who isn’t a destroyer or a goalscorer. The ‘Carrick Paradox.’ I think Luiz has a long way to develop but midfielders who keep the ball, move through stages of the field etc, and produce the occasional bonus goal or assist are very valuable. The same way Modric plays - always be the guy one pass away from the ball, always be ready to receive it and give it, keep possession, keep pressure off your team and on the other.

Now I don’t think Luiz is at the level of Modric or even Carrick, but that’s how I see his role - not a playmaker, not a destroyer, but the pivot point - someone more tactical than me probably knows the name for it. A number 8. Whether he’s doing it well enough or not is not my point, but comparing him to Nakamba or Grealish misses the nuance of his position (and means at times, as you said, it makes much more sense to play Nakamba).

I think Luiz will become excellent at this role. As has been said, whether we should be giving him the time to learn it right now given where we are is a different question - if he had his Man City work permit he would be playing 10-20 games a year for them and learning his trade. But I guarantee in a couple of years whatever team Luiz is playing for will be significantly higher in the league than wherever we are at that time.

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We have to stop playing this 3-4-3. The wingbacks stay out wide and we just get murdered through the middle of the park. It might be different if we had established top quality premier league players in the 2 CM positions, but we've been miles from sorting that position out all year.

Go back to a 4-3-3.

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Personally, now Davis seems to be fit again:

                               Reina

                Konsa - Mings - Hause

Guilbert - Nakamba - Drinkwater - Targett

                             Grealish

                      Samatta - Davis

 

Only debate is Luiz/drinkwater and Hause/Engels for me.

I could be wrong, but I really wonder if davis (battering ram who can also play), and samatta (speedy, busy, ferret) in a front 2 with grealish behind might be a potent front 3.

Or play them in an actual front 3 but narrow.

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On 18/01/2020 at 10:44, ThunderPower_14 said:

We have to stop playing this 3-4-3. The wingbacks stay out wide and we just get murdered through the middle of the park. It might be different if we had established top quality premier league players in the 2 CM positions, but we've been miles from sorting that position out all year.

Go back to a 4-3-3.

I’m surprised by this - I think both the football and the results have been better in a 3-4-3.

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2 hours ago, MaVilla said:

Personally, now Davis seems to be fit again:

                               Reina

                Konsa - Mings - Hause

Guilbert - Nakamba - Drinkwater - Targett

                             Grealish

                      Samatta - Davis

 

Only debate is Luiz/drinkwater and Hause/Engels for me.

I could be wrong, but I really wonder if davis (battering ram who can also play), and samatta (speedy, busy, ferret) in a front 2 with grealish behind might be a potent front 3.

Or play them in an actual front 3 but narrow.

Davis scored 2 in a good long stint in Championship and you want to go 2 up top something Smith never plays and Davis gets in ahead of AEG and Trez. It's never going to happen

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Now we have Ally

                              Reina

                Konsa - Mings - Hause

Guilbert - Nakamba - Drinkwater - Targett

             AEG     Samatta    Grealish

                      

Edited by zab6359
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1 hour ago, Adam2003 said:

I’m surprised by this - I think both the football and the results have been better in a 3-4-3.

That post was probably a bit of an overreaction. We probably just need a bit more energy in the midfield to break up opposition attacks. I feel like teams get in behind our midfield way too easily

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22 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

That post was probably a bit of an overreaction. We probably just need a bit more energy in the midfield to break up opposition attacks. I feel like teams get in behind our midfield way too easily

Games 1-20 (433) chances conceded per game left 4.65 centre 4.6 right 4.45

Last 4 (343) including Man City rout

Left 3.75 centre 3.75 right 4.5 if remove City game left 3.66 centre 3 right 3.3 (which backs up many comments that Elmo got destroyed)

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I don’t think there is such thing as a “best” formation. It depends on the opposition and player availability/ fitness / form.

At the moment, we have a really good relationship developing between Konsa, Mings and Hause with Reina behind them. Reina is also very good at bringing the wing backs into play early.

So I would definitely stick with that back 3 + Guilbert + Targett.

Once you’ve made that call, it has to be 3-4-3 surely. Samatta, Grealish and Nakamba pick themselves and then you’re probably adding AEG and Drinkwater to fill it out, but could also play Trez / Douglas.

I don’t see any strong argument for rushing Davis or Engels back to the starting 11, and I would hold Hourihane back for the easier games where he can do some damage on set pieces.

I would only revert to 4-3-3 if we have injuries to any of the centre backs.

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Right now we are playing a 5-2-3 formation. And it sucks...

Our last lineup being:

 

                             Reina

                Konsa  Mings  Hause  

Guilbert                                          Targett

                  Drinkwater   Nakamba

Trezeguet             El Ghazi         Grealish

 

The problem with this formation is that we have two players in the wide positions and nothing through the middle. Playing 5 at the back should free the wing backs to cover the wide areas themselves.

 

If we want to continue with the 5 at the back we have to change to either 3 in midfield, the extra midfielder can be a flat midfielder or a number 10. Grealish would suit this role perfectly as a number 10.

 

Edited by wilko154
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4 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

Right now we are playing a 5-2-3 formation. And it sucks...

Our last lineup being:

 

                             Reina

                Konsa  Mings  Hause  

Guilbert                                          Targett

                  Drinkwater   Nakamba

Trezeguet             El Ghazi         Grealish

 

The problem with this formation is that we have two players in the wide positions and nothing through the middle. Playing 5 at the back should free the wing backs to cover the wide areas themselves.

 

If we want to continue with the 5 at the back we have to change to either 3 in midfield, the extra midfielder can be a flat midfielder or a number 10. Grealish would suit this role perfectly as a number 10.

 

But on what basis would you say “it sucks” - we just dominated the game with it in our last run out? And exactly as you said our full backs were the ones producing all the width with a front three all playing relatively narrow - probably coming wide more than they should have because none of them are central strikers, but now we have Samatta I think it will be easier for them to stay narrow as against Burnley. Then they can also link up with midfield to make sure we aren’t overwhelmed in the middle. In theory of course!

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                                          Heaton

                Konsa (CB) Engels (CB) Mings (CB)

Guilbert (WB)                                                 Targett (WB)

                   Nakamba (CM) Drinkwater (CM) 

          McGinn (AM)                          Grealish (AM)           

                                     Samatta (ST)

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