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Team shape, tactics and personnel


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Hause’ relatively poor distribution is again indicative of our midfield play. I rarely see any of our CMs showing for the ball by running TOWARDS our CBs. We do the classic schoolboy tactic of running away from the ball and so greatly limiting the passing options for our CBs. The players will know that KH is not the best passer so need to show the intelligence and bravery to drop deep and provide a simple ‘out’ ball. Only Jack, when played centrally, does this but then we massively miss his creativity in the final third. 

We all know Jacks strengths so we give him the ball. We need to ensure that we also appreciate another’s players weaknesses and support them accordingly.  

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17 minutes ago, eholm said:

Hause’ relatively poor distribution is again indicative of our midfield play. I rarely see any of our CMs showing for the ball by running TOWARDS our CBs. We do the classic schoolboy tactic of running away from the ball and so greatly limiting the passing options for our CBs. The players will know that KH is not the best passer so need to show the intelligence and bravery to drop deep and provide a simple ‘out’ ball. Only Jack, when played centrally, does this but then we massively miss his creativity in the final third. 

We all know Jacks strengths so we give him the ball. We need to ensure that we also appreciate another’s players weaknesses and support them accordingly.  

We needed a striker in the window, but we also needed another genuinely creative midfielder and we couldn't afford one.

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11 hours ago, SuffolkVillan said:

This may be ridiculous and I feel ridiculous for suggesting it but here goes....

                               Reina

                Konsa - Engels - Mings

Guilbert - Drinkwater - Nakamba - Targett

                Samatta - Davis  Grealish

Subs: Nyland, Hause, Elmo, Luiz, El Ghazi, Trez, Baston

As Davis and Samatta look well capable of playing centre and running the channels they could interchange a lot and Jack can do his thing

Don't think that's ridiculous at all, in fact I quite like the look of it. I think Hause is the weakest of our defenders (in possession) and that to me looks our strongest defence (if we're playing a back 3).

I would replace Hause on the bench though with Conor, worst case scenario if one of the centre halves get injured we would have the personnel to go to 4 at the back and thus keeping the threat of Conor (well Conor's set pieces) in our locker should we need them. 

Drinkwater or Luiz - you could go either way with that one, if Douglas replicated his fine substitute performances when starting games the place for sure would be his, but like all young players and many of our team, he is quite inconsistent.

I am a fan of Davis regardless of his shy goal tally, he is strong, quick, brings others in to play and I think we need his presence further up the field to take some pressure off the midfield/defence. Samatta looked more lively on Saturday and as you say looks capable of running the channels and interchanging with Davis, could be worth a look that front 3.

The biggest problem we have is consistency and I don't particularly blame Smith for this for chopping and changing the team week in week out. I like how he selects the team based on recent performances. Usually if you play well you keep the shirt (perhaps goalkeeper aside), the trouble is the likes of El Ghazi, Guilbert, Trezeguet, Nakamba and Luiz are all new to the league and are finding it difficult to perform to the required standard every week hence the changes - I don't think any of those mentioned are bad players though and we should try have a bit of patience whilst they continue to settle in.

 

 

 

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on one hand you have talker mings in the middle, on the other i'll throw it out there seeing as I seem to say it most games...there are parts of playing in a 3 that he's not very good at

if you watch the Leicester away game where he was in a sweeping / mopper up type role and just attacked everything and it was great but I think the 3 of them have a tendency to drop back as a 3 in a line to usually cover the run of one striker, that's wrong from my limited tactical knowledge, one of them has to step out and attack the ball, usually the "free" man which would be mings in the middle but if you're asking someone to step up almost in the DMC role then maybe its konsa who is best suited to it...

again I'll use Leicester as an example, if Maddison has the ball between the lines (which he did, a lot) then the back 3 cant all mark Iheanacho, one of them has to close Maddison down, I think we have tightened up, become very good in there air, but we're utter shit against teams running at us with the ball

engels is an anomaly in that because I don't know what he's like covering the right or stepping forward

                         Reina

           Engels Konsa Mings

Guilbert                                Target

           Nakamba  Drinkwater

Trez                                          Jack

                     Samatta

Drinkwater is out with McGinn fit and luiz is coming on at some point most games, if davis is fit id move jack in to a free role in the middle and put davis with samatta (albeit as part of that formation you need strikers who can pull wide too and I dont think either will) but the defence take the cup final for example, as soon as de bruyne skips around nakamba and drinkwater then our defence marking aguero looks like this

Engels   Mings

        Konsa

You revert to a flat back 2 with konsa pushing out to the ball, I don't think mings playing in the centre does that or can do it or if you want him doing it seeing as he's our best CB

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                                Reina

                Konsa - Engels - Mings

Guilbert - Drinkwater - Nakamba - Targett

                             Grealish

                       Samatta - Davis

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3 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

                                Reina

                Konsa - Engels - Mings

Guilbert - Drinkwater - Nakamba - Targett

                             Grealish

                       Samatta - Davis

Has to be the team going forward.

My only query would be Engels and Mings the other way round. I'd feel more comfortable with Mings in the middle but we could have a look at this.

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15 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

                                Reina

                Konsa - Engels - Mings

Guilbert - Drinkwater - Nakamba - Targett

                             Grealish

                       Samatta - Davis

Will the electric wheelchair for Davis count as an additional man!?!?!?!

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On 04/02/2020 at 14:54, sne said:

Drinkwater has shown nothing yet to suggest he's even close to ready for the starting 11.

IF he get's fit then sure he could start games. 

Whilst I do agree with this sentiment, we seem to have performed better as a team over 90 minutes when he starts and Luiz gets brought on as a sub to change the game when the opposition is less fresh.

Admittedly the results were against weaker opposition, but who else would you start in place of him? Luiz has never performed when starting, and Conor doesnt work in a deep lying two.

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6 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Whilst I do agree with this sentiment, we seem to have performed better as a team over 90 minutes when he starts and Luiz gets brought on as a sub to change the game when the opposition is less fresh.

Admittedly the results were against weaker opposition, but who else would you start in place of him? Luiz has never performed when starting, and Conor doesnt work in a deep lying two.

The team get's such a huge lift once he's finally off the pitch that they go on to turn the match around.

It's a novel idea if nothing else. Not sure it's a viable strategy going forward.

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5 minutes ago, sne said:

The team get's such a huge lift once he's finally off the pitch that they go on to turn the match around.

It's a novel idea if nothing else. Not sure it's a viable strategy going forward.

Neither am I... let's hope McGinn is a super freak in recovery and is back soon 

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On 04/02/2020 at 08:40, eholm said:

Hause’ relatively poor distribution is again indicative of our midfield play. I rarely see any of our CMs showing for the ball by running TOWARDS our CBs. We do the classic schoolboy tactic of running away from the ball and so greatly limiting the passing options for our CBs. The players will know that KH is not the best passer so need to show the intelligence and bravery to drop deep and provide a simple ‘out’ ball. Only Jack, when played centrally, does this but then we massively miss his creativity in the final third. 

We all know Jacks strengths so we give him the ball. We need to ensure that we also appreciate another’s players weaknesses and support them accordingly.  

While you are on to something important, Hause's poor distribution has nothing to do with that. Like I said after I had seen him play one match for us (preseason or whatever it was), he's so limited as a defender due to being incredibly one footed. What happens in game is that the opponent cover his pass put on his left, he gets all flustered, spends too much time on the ball and then sends an akward last ditch pass to a team mate who gets immidiatly put under pressure. 

He's largely impressed me as a rotation option, but he's a million miles from being good enough to start at this level. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Same as the problem with 433 was the two 8s pushing too high and leaving the holding midfielder to defend alone, the 343 is not giving us enough of a foothold in the middle. The midfield area and team shape is the major issue with us conceding, not "the defence".

Average formations we've taken up recently...

v Brighton                                                              

av_bri.PNG.c6a1313dd7a07cd4e7ed37f57ffd8baf.PNG

 

 v Watford

av_wat.PNG.4121346235dc7299504a6c9bc20055f0.PNG

 

v Bournemouth

av_bou.PNG.fbf24414b8e84408187e41e15fbc470c.PNG

 

v Tottenham              

av_tot.PNG.3e04f7d4d6aa2e6bbbf2a25e7e9d5ab9.PNG

This is obviously only a general guide, things happen in a match where you can get pulled out of position all the time, but the consistency with which our two midfielders are occupying the same space cannot be good for us. It's clear watching how tough we find it to have relaxed possession in the middle. It all goes down the wings.

We either need the forwards to drop in and press the ball more, along with the central two showing confidence on the ball and spreading out; or my preference is switch to 352 bringing Grealish into the middle where he can get more of the ball. I'd put El Ghazi up front and tell him to play right alongside Samatta. I think Ghazi being uncomfortable up there is still better than us leaving Grealish on the wing where he can be quiet, and it'll strengthen our midfield. McGinn returning will clearly help everything as well.

If we're going to have this stupidly high line we need the midfield and forwards to harry the ball so players don't have time to pick out a run and float a pass into the 40 yards of space we're giving teams. A 23 year year old Gabby would absolutely ruin us, he'd get on the end of every through ball. The amount of space we're giving teams to hit is not sensible.

The 343 could improve and we'll make it work, but I feel like we need to stop this constant supply line giving whoever we play 4 or 5 incredible chances every game. Something that can immediately help is the two side CBs move forward whenever they are spare and go to mark players before the ball reaches them. How many times watching us do we end up with someone dribbling directly at our back 3/5 with runners everywhere? Teams should have to work their nuts off to get a chance to do that and they don't, the ball breaks unfortunately or we lose a 50/50 further forward and teams are in immediately storming towards us.

Just as a comparison, here's some recent Wolves games, their midfield. They also play a 343... can't attach will do next post.

Edited by Tomaszk
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Wolves' average 343 formation. Note the more balanced midfield and the deeper defensive line!

3-2 win v Southampton (think Neto/Adama were switching wings leading to this mess)

wol_sot.PNG.d3fe6a59e2be3063d2930e6becf35408.PNG

 

1-2 loss v Liverpool

wol_liv.PNG.e49ec4cae9402daedee02c3db3679674.PNG

 

0-0 draw v Man Utd

wol_mnu.PNG.4e117166c75a06faac4832ce4e9e78bd.PNG

 

0-0 draw v Leicester

wol_lei.PNG.54ef5b61fc715ed20030e1d2261b6e59.PNG

Edited by Tomaszk
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  • 2 weeks later...

Noticed a couple of other threads with some (good) team suggestions so thought I would bump this one now the cup final is out of the way and we have 11 more cup finals to play.

For the run-in I think we need to stick to four at the back and try to keep this as settled as possible. The defensive unit did well overall against City and hopefully that breeds confidence going into these crucial matches.

To be honest I wouldn't be bothered whether it was Reina or Nyland in goal, but I think for the extra experience I would just about pick Pepe. Then the same back four that played Sunday.

I think that we will keep the same team (as the final) next up at Leicester, which I wouldn't disagree with, however McGinn must be very close to the managers thoughts now and moving forward (after Leicester) I would like to see the following;

This has been suggested on another thread and is my favourite -

                           Back 5

                          Nakamba

                 Luiz                   McGinn

                          Grealish

                    Samatta    Davis

I think this has got a lot of potential and lots of energy to press high (like we did in spells in the second half against City), we may get caught now and again, but we're conceding chances anyway and I just think Davis can add that bit of strength, bring others in to play and get the games played in the oppositions half. It will allow us to be more direct at times which I don't think would be a bad thing. I think that formation is the best way of including Davis (and a front two) whilst playing four at the back and not leaving ourselves too exposed (like maybe a standard 4-4-2 would/could). 

Failing that I would just look at replacing Davis with El Ghazi and put him and Grealish either side of Samatta with a narrow three in behind.

I would perhaps look more to our home games for the diamond formation where teams are more likely to "sit back" a little and go 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 in the away games.

 

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