Diet and Weightloss

[Demitri_C]

22 minutes ago, El Zen said:

I can almost guarantee you are still eating sugar in some form or another, Dem. 

Eating lots of sugar is obviously bad for you. I also eat a lot less sugar than most people around me, and would typically try to educate people on the dangers of eating too much sugar. 

But I also want to educate people on the pointlessness, and potential harm, in talking about food, nutrition and diets in terms of absolutes. 

Sugar in and of itself isn’t dangerous. It’s a valuable source of energy that our brain and body needs. It’s why we crave it. You’ll find sugar naturally occurring in a wide range of food. It’s okay and good to eat some of that food.

Too much sugar, which is a problem in most of Western society, can be very, very dangerous indeed. But that doesn’t mean healthy = zero sugar. That is just completely false.

Thats good well done. The only sugar I have is a handful of berries. All my desserts i make are keto friendly . For any desserts i tend to use almond flour, and stevia sweetner. If i use peanut butter that will be very low amounts of sugar.

I would have to disagree about sugar, i mean if you have minimal sugar you should be ok but the biggest problem is there such high volumes of sugar in everything.  Fruit for example. Yes it natural sugar but its still sugar and alot of it. 

Moderation is key of course but i would rather burn on fat than sugar currently because i sleep better, dont feel as groggy in the mornings, more energetic and look better as ive lost a lot of weight.

 

[El Zen]

Sure. Just don’t say to people they shouldn’t have any sugar at all. It’s misinformation. And almost impossible, in reality. 

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, El Zen said:

Sure. Just don’t say to people they shouldn’t have any sugar at all. It’s misinformation. And almost impossible, in reality. 

If you actually read my post i said from my experience 

Its not like im enforcing my opinions on people. People can do as they please. But your also providing some incorrect information about sugar but ill leave it then as we wont agree

[El Zen]

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

If you actually read my post i said from my experience 

Its not like im enforcing my opinions on people. People can do as they please. But your also providing some incorrect information about sugar but ill leave it then as we wont agree

What incorrect information is that then?

You are eating sugar, Dem. You’re just not eating added sugar, and otherwise limiting your sugar intake. Which is fine. But you’re still getting some sugar in your diet, and that’s perfectly fine and healthy.

Edited March 11, 2022 by El Zen

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, El Zen said:

What incorrect information is that then?

The part where you say your body cant live without sugar. Lots of people do keto and have one meal a day and it's just vegetables/salad combined with protein.

Its not misinformation thats the truth as your telling me. I dont understand why you had to take the convo in that direction it was very un necessary. 

The problem and this is a worldwide issue in most places is we have too much sugar in our diets. Try find food with no sugar. Its very difficult. 

[El Zen]

Even veggies contain some sugar, Dem. 

I’m saying sugar contains stuff your body needs. As long as you don’t eat too much of it. Which I agree many/most people in our part of the world do. 

But some sugar is perfectly fine, healthy and practically unavoidable. 

Which part do you disagree with and would say is misinformation? 

[Stevo985]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

I dont think you need them both personally. Alot of people on keto dont eat sugar and live ok. Im not saying you cant run off fat and sugar all im saying is having a diet on high sugar is really bad for us. Its shit but that's the way it is.

I can only speak on my own experience but since giving up sugar its really made me healthier and lose weight more. Ive done slimming world, weight watchers, shake diet (the absolute worst i would not recommend that to anyone) but bar far in terms of how you feel, and being healthy keto is by far the best

 

If you don't eat sugar then your body gets it from other sources. You still need it.

I agree a high sugar diet is terrible.

All I'm saying is telling people to completely cut out sugar isn't enough. You can easily eat zero sugar and still have an incredibly unhealthy diet

[fightoffyour]

Sweat an onion for 20 minutes and you’ll find out how much sugar it contains.

Sugar is essential.

[Risso]

1 hour ago, El Zen said:

Even veggies contain some sugar, Dem. 

I’m saying sugar contains stuff your body needs. As long as you don’t eat too much of it. Which I agree many/most people in our part of the world do. 

But some sugar is perfectly fine, healthy and practically unavoidable. 

Which part do you disagree with and would say is misinformation? 

I think you're getting into semantics. Which sugars does your body absolutely need? I have "some" sugar a day, as it's not possible to cut it out completely, but at most it's probably about 30G. I get plenty of energy from other sources, and never feel tired (well other than the natural tiredness that comes from having a 10 month old baby). There's no inherent nutritional benefit to sugar, it's just a source of energy. Of course lots of food that is good for you has sugar in it, but if you're getting the same nutrients from other sources, what's the benefit in the sugar itself?

[villa4europe]

33 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

If you don't eat sugar then your body gets it from other sources. You still need it.

I agree a high sugar diet is terrible.

All I'm saying is telling people to completely cut out sugar isn't enough. You can easily eat zero sugar and still have an incredibly unhealthy diet

Sure I've told this story before, I used to work at a cookie factory in Hartlebury, did an exhibition once down the big smoke (which resulted in me eating circa 10kg of jelly beans but that's a different story) 

Opposite our stand was weight watchers doing all their low fat "healthy" biscuit stuff, we got chatting to a guy there about doing some work together, basically the starting point for the vast majority of sweet bakery products is mixing sugars and fats, they take the fat out, what do they replace it with? Liquid sugars, they take the sugar out what do they replace it with? More fats

Its not everything and it's no doubt got a lot better as people have got more conscious over it (this was 20 years ago) but I bet a huge chunk of that still exists, anything that is low anything still has to have it replaced by something else and that doesn't mean it's healthy it just means they can change the label

Long story short be very wary of anything that claims to be healthy on the basis of low fat or low sugar 

When I stopped my keto I went high protein, I imagine that's a huge con too but my sweet snack was the protein flapjack packs they sell at the till at tesco express, not a clue what they were laced with but 11g of protein I'd be amazed if they were actually healthy 

[villa4europe]

3 minutes ago, Risso said:

I think you're getting into semantics. Which sugars does your body absolutely need? I have "some" sugar a day, as it's not possible to cut it out completely, but at most it's probably about 30G. I get plenty of energy from other sources, and never feel tired (well other than the natural tiredness that comes from having a 10 month old baby). There's no inherent nutritional benefit to sugar, it's just a source of energy. Of course lots of food that is good for you has sugar in it, but if you're getting the same nutrients from other sources, what's the benefit in the sugar itself?

My basic understanding of it all is that your body doesn't need sucrose but does need glucose 

So you don't need sugar but you do need foods that can be converted to glucose which as you say is common in veg and from my far distant a level biology classes fructose is the same thing just more complex / potent 

I would say controlling the amount of fruit you eat because you're concerned about sugar intake stuff like that is too far, not eating haribo and cadburys is something different 

[El Zen]

41 minutes ago, Risso said:

I think you're getting into semantics. Which sugars does your body absolutely need? I have "some" sugar a day, as it's not possible to cut it out completely, but at most it's probably about 30G. I get plenty of energy from other sources, and never feel tired (well other than the natural tiredness that comes from having a 10 month old baby). There's no inherent nutritional benefit to sugar, it's just a source of energy. Of course lots of food that is good for you has sugar in it, but if you're getting the same nutrients from other sources, what's the benefit in the sugar itself?

What’s the harm in getting some of that energy from sugar?

Edited March 11, 2022 by El Zen

[Stevo985]

50 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Sure I've told this story before, I used to work at a cookie factory in Hartlebury, did an exhibition once down the big smoke (which resulted in me eating circa 10kg of jelly beans but that's a different story) 

Opposite our stand was weight watchers doing all their low fat "healthy" biscuit stuff, we got chatting to a guy there about doing some work together, basically the starting point for the vast majority of sweet bakery products is mixing sugars and fats, they take the fat out, what do they replace it with? Liquid sugars, they take the sugar out what do they replace it with? More fats

Its not everything and it's no doubt got a lot better as people have got more conscious over it (this was 20 years ago) but I bet a huge chunk of that still exists, anything that is low anything still has to have it replaced by something else and that doesn't mean it's healthy it just means they can change the label

Long story short be very wary of anything that claims to be healthy on the basis of low fat or low sugar 

When I stopped my keto I went high protein, I imagine that's a huge con too but my sweet snack was the protein flapjack packs they sell at the till at tesco express, not a clue what they were laced with but 11g of protein I'd be amazed if they were actually healthy 

High protein diet is great, especially for muscle building. 
 

But products that claim to be “high” in protein, like you said, can be a con. What counts as high? Anything can have a lot of protein if it’s 500 calories etc

[Rds1983]

23 hours ago, maqroll said:

I'm coming in around 2000 a day so far which is 500 fewer than recommended.

It's easy for me to lose weight, I've just never tried fasting. 

Have you actually calculated your calories maintenance levels or going off the '2500 a day for men'? My actual maintenance levels are at about 3300 a day but I know men who are down at about 2250.

[Rds1983]

8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

High protein diet is great, especially for muscle building. 
 

But products that claim to be “high” in protein, like you said, can be a con. What counts as high? Anything can have a lot of protein if it’s 500 calories etc

 Alot of protein foods are actually carb or fat foods when you break down the macros. Marketing on it is such a con. There are great high protein low cal foods out there but you have to be diligent. 

[Rds1983]

6 hours ago, El Zen said:

Your body needs both sugar and fat.

You definitely need healthy fats. However the calories in them per gram are higher than protein or carbs. 

[Mr_Dogg]

24 minutes ago, El Zen said:

What’s the harm in getting some of that energy from sugar?

There is nothing wrong with it for a person who is happy with their weight and in control of their diet.

But eating sugar (or simple carbs) can lead to crashing which can lead to cravings and then the cycle continues. Same thing for complex carbs.

Keto is very defined therefore easier to follow, IMO it's not a long term diet but can achieve very good results.

[theboyangel]

This year has been a non starter for me exercise and weight wise.
 

Week before Christmas I had a fractured metatarsal, which took around 8 weeks to heal but then induced an inflamed Achilles and continual back issues as my gait was really affected during the healing process. 

Fingers crossed I should be ok with returning to the gym as of next week so hopefully shift a few pounds ahead of the summer.

Sadly, my jogging career is over so cardio is limited to cycling and swimming. 

I started the 5-2 diet a month or so ago and know improvements will show once I combine it with some exercise. 

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Rds1983 said:

 Alot of protein foods are actually carb or fat foods when you break down the macros. Marketing on it is such a con. There are great high protein low cal foods out there but you have to be diligent. 

It's just like when everyone thought fat was the enemy. You cold label anything "low fat" and people thought it was healthy. It's nonsense

[Demitri_C]

3 hours ago, El Zen said:

Even veggies contain some sugar, Dem. 

I’m saying sugar contains stuff your body needs. As long as you don’t eat too much of it. Which I agree many/most people in our part of the world do. 

But some sugar is perfectly fine, healthy and practically unavoidable. 

Which part do you disagree with and would say is misinformation? 

Depends what veg you have. I tend to have leafy greens aa thwy are the most healthy for you and dont cintain sugar.

The part where you say your body needs sugar is not essentially true because there are various people who do keto and literally all they have is two meals a day no snacks nothing and have no sugar. They do this for years and its essentially improved their health. Keto and IF can greatly improve your health. People have said its helped their blood pressure, diabetes, arthritis etc.

Sugar spikes insulin and the more this happens the more likely you are to obtain insulin resistance which is what causes alot of our health issues.  I said i agree with the element of your post where minimal sugar is ok but the problem is most people dont have minimal sugar. The recommended daily amount of sugar is around 30g. A apple alone has 10g of sugar, a banana has 12g those two alone make 22g of sugar! They recommend 5 pieces of fruit a day which that alone is more than the 30g!

Your body can run off fat too thats the purpose of keto. Dont get me wrong im not saying go and eat a load of kfc or just chicken skin. Im referring to healthy fats like avocado and olive oil. Things of that nature.