rodders0223 Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: The terms to rejoin us will already be agreed in the clause. We trigger it, he's our player again, when he's good enough for our first team. Which can only happen by being given a year or two playing in the PL - something we can't offer him. It's a glorified loan, but without imposing restrictions on Burnley and letting them get a player they couldn't otherwise afford or wouldn't be sold at all, whilst giving us FFP room for £60m in transfer fees. This is the academy serving its purpose. It's being handled by Monchi not Wyness. It's what the so-called "big clubs" do. We trigger it. He can reject us. He's not a piece if meat and there's a good chance he will have other suitors if he succeeds. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tomav84 Posted August 6, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted August 6, 2023 1 minute ago, rodders0223 said: We trigger it. He can reject us. He's not a piece if meat and there's a good chance he will have other suitors if he succeeds. the whole buy back thing was discussed at great length when we signed luiz. it was also posted a page or 3 back the full details of how it works. he is indeed just like a piece of meat in this situation. he agrees the terms of his potential return to us as part of this deal and is essentially 'forced' to move if we trigger it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted August 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: We trigger it. He can reject us. He's not a piece if meat and there's a good chance he will have other suitors if he succeeds. The clause can include a pre-arranged contract that he can't reject, it will be signed. We will have been negotiating a new contract with him already anyway so this makes sense. I'll hold my hands up if this turns out not to be the case down the line, then yes it will be a bad deal. I just can't see us doing such a deal though - the reason you are annoyed about it is why that won't be the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: It's a glorified loan, but without imposing restrictions I seem to remember the same being said about Dougie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted August 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 6, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, tomav84 said: the whole buy back thing was discussed at great length when we signed luiz. it was also posted a page or 3 back the full details of how it works. he is indeed just like a piece of meat in this situation. he agrees the terms of his potential return to us as part of this deal and is essentially 'forced' to move if we trigger it. Not quite like a piece of meat though, he's not being forced to sign the contract now with a gun to his head. Sure he might have changed his mind in a year or two or not be that happy about it any more, but it will be something he's already agreed to now. Edited August 6, 2023 by fightoffyour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted August 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 6, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: I seem to remember the same being said about Dougie. Well it was. City didn't want him back though. If we don't want Aaron back then it will play out the same. In that case it's better for us because we got a fee for a player we never would have used. Edited August 6, 2023 by fightoffyour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 What stands us in good stead here with this deal is that Aaron has connections to our club with his brothers being here, and him being a local lad coming through the academy and a fan. I think he would jump at the chance to come back in 12-24 months. I get the comparison as Dougie had a similar deal, but he never hit the heights at the time to make Man City trigger their buy back option. For Man City it doesn’t matter as much as they have loads of top quality talent in their squad already that they wouldn’t miss him. That is not to say they won’t come sniffing around again next summer if Dougie has another storming season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 9 minutes ago, tomav84 said: the whole buy back thing was discussed at great length when we signed luiz. it was also posted a page or 3 back the full details of how it works. he is indeed just like a piece of meat in this situation. he agrees the terms of his potential return to us as part of this deal and is essentially 'forced' to move if we trigger it. The Xavi Simons clause between PSG and PSV didn't work that way. He had the right to refuse going back to PSG if he wanted to. Maybe the clauses works different in England now that you are not part of the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: We trigger it. He can reject us. He's not a piece if meat and there's a good chance he will have other suitors if he succeeds. He can't, that's the point. The terms are agreed now. He's not a piece of meat, nobody is forcing him to sign any contract he doesn't want to sign, he just has to honour the ones he does sign. If he signs the terms now then he's clearly happy with them Edited August 6, 2023 by CVByrne 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 40 minutes ago, tomav84 said: the whole buy back thing was discussed at great length when we signed luiz. it was also posted a page or 3 back the full details of how it works. he is indeed just like a piece of meat in this situation. he agrees the terms of his potential return to us as part of this deal and is essentially 'forced' to move if we trigger it. That is very illegal, City have not bought any of these buyback players for this reason They could have triggered the Luiz clause and flipped him for double for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 40 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: The clause can include a pre-arranged contract that he can't reject, it will be signed. We will have been negotiating a new contract with him already anyway so this makes sense. I'll hold my hands up if this turns out not to be the case down the line, then yes it will be a bad deal. I just can't see us doing such a deal though - the reason you are annoyed about it is why that won't be the deal. Why would he or his agent agree to that pre arranged contract? What if this contract has a 40000 a week salary and Ramsey has a stormer at Burnley and Liverpool offer him 100000 a week 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galway Lion Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 29 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: We trigger it. He can reject us. He's not a piece if meat and there's a good chance he will have other suitors if he succeeds. As people have said this is a glorified loan which allows us more wriggle room with FFP. We can purchase a player that is ready for the first team now and if Ramsey develops well enough at Burnley buy him back. That’s a clever way to circumnavigate FFP restrictions and strengthen the first team immediately in the area’s we need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted August 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 6, 2023 10 minutes ago, Zatman said: That is very illegal, City have not bought any of these buyback players for this reason They could have triggered the Luiz clause and flipped him for double for example yes they could've. but buy back clauses have an expiration date. ours for luiz was 2 years throughout which he was largely crap for us so city didn't trigger it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 Luiz's buyback was about twenty million and it went up every transfer window they didn't sign him, he was doing okay for us but Man City wouldn't have been able to buy him back and sell for double, they probably wouldn't have been able to sell him for much profit at all, if any, and bearing in mind they already paid £12m to buy him in in the first place. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted August 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 6, 2023 18 minutes ago, Zatman said: Why would he or his agent agree to that pre arranged contract? What if this contract has a 40000 a week salary and Ramsey has a stormer at Burnley and Liverpool offer him 100000 a week I maybe wrong but say we have a buyback of 20 Million on a 3 year contract at 40k a week. If Liverpool want to buy him they would have to pay us say 40 million and we would need to pay up his contract. On top of what he gets as a signing on bonus and 100k a week at Liverpool. Agent has played a blinder. Villa get a profit. Player is happy x 2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KangarooVillan Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 19 hours ago, nick76 said: Not really, if Emery thought he could cut it at the level we need we wouldn’t be selling. The buy back clause is just good business sense and probably something Monchi has brought into negotiations now he’s taken over and will likely happen for many youth sales. ”without the buy-back-clause we could probably get nearly double the reported twelve million fee, the only reason the fee is as low as the reported twelve million is because of the buy-back” nearly double? You’re having a laugh! If Emery had any thought about AJ for us, he wouldn’t be leaving! How much without a buyback then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted August 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 6, 2023 44 minutes ago, Zatman said: Why would he or his agent agree to that pre arranged contract? What if this contract has a 40000 a week salary and Ramsey has a stormer at Burnley and Liverpool offer him 100000 a week How's that different from being on £20k at Burnley or still at Villa and Liverpool offer him £100k a week after a year but the owning club don't want to sell? Tough, that's the contract. Why would someone agree a contract with a guaranteed amount of money to be paid? Because that's nice guaranteed money on the table regardless of how the career actually goes. Plus it could have all sorts of performance related increases already built in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said: How much without a buyback then? I’m guessing a couple mill tops, it’s certainly unlikely to be anywhere near close to double as suggested. The conversation may have not even got there as with many negotiations in any type of business. Maybe Burnley said they will only pay £12m maximum or that’s the max they are able to offer and thus we thought of inventive ways or options to increase the benefit for Villa and thus a buy back clause was added and a condition for us. If we had stuck at say £15m then maybe a deal couldn’t have happened, as with any deal there are always likely to be compromises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 4 hours ago, Genie said: I just saw a snipped of the Ramsey to Burnley link and panicked, for a second I thought we were considering £12m for Jacob. Phew. I do wonder if fans of other clubs will think we've sold Jacob... "They're having a fire sale over the Villa mate, they're rattled" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 1 minute ago, StewieGriffin said: I do wonder if fans of other clubs will think we've sold Jacob... "They're having a fire sale over the Villa mate, they're rattled" Scary isnt it. Many thought it was JJ going to Boro in January . Shows how little other fans think of other clubs players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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