Aaron Ramsey

[thunderball]

Conservatively we must have over £100m of current talent amongst the kids, this will only increase over time, and now is exactly the wrong time to sell Ramsey. Surely we want to see him play for us like his brother and then take a view. Jacob is worth £30m or more now, but worth more to us I would suggest.

[Villa87]

4 minutes ago, thunderball said:

Conservatively we must have over £100m of current talent amongst the kids, this will only increase over time, and now is exactly the wrong time to sell Ramsey. Surely we want to see him play for us like his brother and then take a view. Jacob is worth £30m or more now, but worth more to us I would suggest.

JJ definitely worth more than £30 million. 

[MWARLEY2]

4 minutes ago, thunderball said:

Conservatively we must have over £100m of current talent amongst the kids, this will only increase over time, and now is exactly the wrong time to sell Ramsey. Surely we want to see him play for us like his brother and then take a view. Jacob is worth £30m or more now, but worth more to us I would suggest.

Jacob would be probably 75 mill now to us. 

[AvfcRigo82]

As others have suggested already, a loan would be the best outcome here.

I doubt we would get a £10m loan fee, however, we can always include some terms within the loan whereby if Aaron doesn't play 'x amount of PL games' then Burnley owe us a £10m loan fee.

Its about time we started letting other PL & Top Championship clubs pay us to get our potential future stars enough experience under their belts.

[duke313]

4 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

But that's the thing, they're PSG, the other clubs that do it are the likes of barca, Real Madrid and I think maybe Juventus and even then you'd do well to name 5 players bought back in the last 10 years across europe

The calls for archer and now Ramsey to be sold with buy back clauses are totally unrealistic

I agree. Not saying we should sell AJ with a buy back, just that’s an example that happened a few weeks ago.

[Keyblade]

32 minutes ago, useless said:

I don't see what's funny about that, both were very inconsistent for us last season, countless times I watched Buendia and watched him get easily knocked off the ball or give it way and thought to myself Aaron Ramsey would do better, not saying he's better than them now but he has a good chance of becoming better than them and frankly isn't far off now, so as such I'd sell both before I'd sell Ramsey, likes of Ramsey and Philogene should be looking to replace those two as squad players in the coming seasons.

It's actually quite logical if likes of Aaron and Jaden are going to make it with us that's the kind of players they will have to replace in the squad and we will buy better for starting eleven as has already started to happen this summer.

There's no evidence that AJ would acquit himself in PL football better than Bailey let alone Buendia. Certainly not based on a 6 month loan in the Championship. You forget Buendia was Championship player of the season the summer we bought him and had 32 goal contributions in the league that year. This is far beyond anything AJ has shown in his career thus far. That's not even getting to the fact that Buendia now has 3 full seasons of PL experience under his belt. 

[useless]

Football doesn't work like that, you could say the same for Buendia and Chukwuemeka, but most teams would take Chukwuemeka over Buendia, or at least the top teams would at least, as Chukwumeka potential is greater than what Buendia has achieved and they can bring in other top players.

If we were to sell Buendia or Bailey we wouldn't just be relying on Ramsey to replace them, we would replace them with more proven players and Ramsey would be squad player for the time being.

Plenty of players have done more than Ramsey has at Championship level, but doesn't mean to say they're going to be better than Ramsey longer term, in the same way there are players that have done more than Buendia has at the top level, but that doesn't mean they would be better for us in the coming seasons than Buendia.

[romavillan]

53 minutes ago, useless said:

I'd sooner sell Buendia or Bailey before Ramsey no debate.

Yep I'm with you there, otherwise what's the point in bringing these kids through? He's as invested in us as we are in him. IF he makes it we get a player who knows what putting on our shirt is all about, buying someone doesn't come close. 

[HanoiVillan]

One wrinkle in this is that it's also family . . . what keeps Jacob happiest? Not that he's running things, but he's a very important player and it would be a mistake to piss him off unnecessarily. 

[useless]

I just searched Nixon's name alongside Burnley and this summer he's linked them with a load of players, Lokonga is apparently in talks according to Telegraph, but none of them have signed, so not sure how reliable he is, he's one of those that claims to know too much for it to be possibly true, I remember when people used to ask him for transfer news on twitter and he conviently had an answer for everthing, no one is that 'itk'.

It wouldn't surprise me if Burnley are really interested in him, but also I wouldn't be surprised if half of what Nixon says is guesswork, he's probably seen that they're interested and is presuming that because Ramsey didn't play on US tour and that because all the current hype is surrouding Philogene then we would be prepared to sell.

The only way I could possibly see us selling is if he's refusing to sign a new contract, but I doubt that, also both Jacob and Cole are signed to the same agency.

[skarroki]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

its a fair comment, but we don't really know what we are selling at the moment....they are mere pups.

they could turn out to be world beaters.....look what happened when Blues sold Bellingham, £ 25 mill was a snip for him.....sure they are not all going to turn out like that.....but we simply don't know.

We should only sell, when we are reasonably sure of what we are selling.

Nothing is certain in football, but this is a kid that has been with us 10 years and his whole family are fully embedded into the Villa. 

I'm not being funny, but I don't understand how any club could ever be more sure of what they are keeping hold of, or selling on. 

I imagine Emery and his staff have read all the reports of the youth team, watched their clips, had them in training, spoken to the youth staff about them, got a gauge of their personality and their drive and how susceptible they are to injury etc etc etc. 

I'm not pointing the finger at you TRO, but I think in the modern age of video game football and stats overload everywhere, people are quick to announce the career decision of a player as definitively good or bad or indifferent based on the levels they think everyone involved in the move is at. 

If Wesley didn't get that freak, career-defining injury that transfer might not have looked bad value. Likewise, if his career suddenly takes off at Stoke were we wrong to cut our losses? 

I was equally gutted when we sold Young, Milner and Downing. One of those sales ended up looking a steal whereas the other two sales, if we had those players in their prime at the club now, I'd expect us to ask for Grealish money to sell them on. 

This is a long and winding way of essentially saying, I don't think you can ever be sure you've made the right choice, and you have to hope hindsight proves you right in the long run. 

I'm sure the club have their reasons if they sell any academy player and I hope they make a good call and every lad from the academy has a good career. 

[TheMightyVillans]

If burnley spent about 20mill on trafford then 20mill should be the minimum for ramsey

[Zatman]

11 hours ago, duke313 said:

Can’t see us selling. A loan would be good though. He looked a class above the Championship, so bottom PL team would suit.

Yet we still have the tears of the Norwich fanbase still in denial that he only played because of Smith

[StanBalaban]

8 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

One wrinkle in this is that it's also family . . . what keeps Jacob happiest? Not that he's running things, but he's a very important player and it would be a mistake to piss him off unnecessarily. 

Conversely, it could be the player feeling that after last season, he wants to play regular football somewhere.

I would hope that we loan him out whilst extending his contract.

[gwi1890]

The fee is ridiculously low, but people have to remember that we have to sell players selling the likes of Nakamba for a low fees and giving Wesley away for free doesn’t really help our ffp situation, selling players from our academy greatly benefits us financially. We can’t keep them all I’m afraid.

[TRO]

10 hours ago, MWARLEY2 said:

Betrayal is harsh . From day 1 there will have been people telling them that only 5% make it out of the academy and even less into Premier Leagur football.  It is a brutal business that throws all your eggs into one basket with v limited chance of success. If and i am saying if , Unai doesnt see him as a vital cog then it flips to a business decision. If Aaron ends up on a 20k a week 5 year contract at Burnley then we have more than done our job brilliantly.  Or as hoped he stays and maybe signs a 5 year contract and is integrated into the squad then great again. Just playing devils advocate here. However potentially good he is that still might not be good enough for where the club wants to be and theres no shame in that. 

Yeah..I agree, but my point was...We are not sure yet, whether he will make it or not, despite the potential looking good.....so selling is pre-mature for me.

[TRO]

16 hours ago, thunderball said:

Conservatively we must have over £100m of current talent amongst the kids, this will only increase over time, and now is exactly the wrong time to sell Ramsey. Surely we want to see him play for us like his brother and then take a view. Jacob is worth £30m or more now, but worth more to us I would suggest.

When you see some of the fee's being banded around for the players playing in the England Under 21's.....our young players proposed fee's are modest.

They want c40m for Brennan Johnson( wales)....Gibbs -white went for c40M......Gordon went for c45m  and Arsenal want 50m for Balogun, after one good season at Reims.

and Jacob was one of the best players,for England, before his injury and Cam and Aaron have made their mark too.

Edited August 2, 2023 by TRO

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, StanBalaban said:

Conversely, it could be the player feeling that after last season, he wants to play regular football somewhere.

Yeah, it's natural to assume that 'considering Jacob's POV' would point towards him staying, but of course Aaron might want to leave and Jacob might want that for him as well. 

[useless]

Aaron Ramsey is the last one we should be selling and unless he himself wants to leave I doubt that we would even entertain the idea, if we're that desperate to sell a youngster to help with FFP then sell Archer who isn't as good, but because of his goals would probably fetch just as much if not more, or better still if we need to sell, then sell the liks of Digne, Coutinho, Chambers, Dendoncker, Traore, Davis, and so on.

Our very best academy players, Bogarde, Aaron Ramsey, Iroegbunam, and so on, are the last players we should be selling, theramin point of the academy is to produce such players to save ourselves having to spend tens of millions on first teamers wherever possible,  you don't put the amount of effort we've put into developing someone like Aaron Ramsey, watch him stand out at 16, 18, 21, levels, play as a regular for England throughout all the age groups and sometimes captain them, go out on loan to two promotion chasing championship teams and look like a standout player for both whilst scoring goals and assisting, to only then sell that player before he's had a chance with us.

People keep comparing us to Man City and Chelsea and how they sell their youngsters but our first team or academy isn't at their level yet, by that I mean for their first team they can go out and sign a couple of players worth fifty million or more for every positon, they've got stronger finances and to most players are a more attractive propositon than us, and as such any top academy players they produce they're in less need of than we are of ours, our academy is catching up, but it's still very young in it's development, each year we might produce an handful with a real chance of making it as a footballer at a very good standard and hopefully some can make it with us, but likes of Man City and Chelsea at the moment are producing many more, so they can also more afford to let some of their top youngsters leave for that reason too.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, skarroki said:

Nothing is certain in football, but this is a kid that has been with us 10 years and his whole family are fully embedded into the Villa. 

I'm not being funny, but I don't understand how any club could ever be more sure of what they are keeping hold of, or selling on. 

I imagine Emery and his staff have read all the reports of the youth team, watched their clips, had them in training, spoken to the youth staff about them, got a gauge of their personality and their drive and how susceptible they are to injury etc etc etc. 

I'm not pointing the finger at you TRO, but I think in the modern age of video game football and stats overload everywhere, people are quick to announce the career decision of a player as definitively good or bad or indifferent based on the levels they think everyone involved in the move is at. 

If Wesley didn't get that freak, career-defining injury that transfer might not have looked bad value. Likewise, if his career suddenly takes off at Stoke were we wrong to cut our losses? 

I was equally gutted when we sold Young, Milner and Downing. One of those sales ended up looking a steal whereas the other two sales, if we had those players in their prime at the club now, I'd expect us to ask for Grealish money to sell them on. 

This is a long and winding way of essentially saying, I don't think you can ever be sure you've made the right choice, and you have to hope hindsight proves you right in the long run. 

I'm sure the club have their reasons if they sell any academy player and I hope they make a good call and every lad from the academy has a good career. 

All salient points....but not addressing the one I was making.

appraise Aaron Ramsey now, and then appraise him again in a couple of seasons when he has broken in to the first team like his brother.......the difference is likely to be significant, thats the point I am making, but we have to wait and see.

when I said we don't know what we are selling, I was refering to the developed player....not his past character.