Generic Virus Thread

[hippo]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Sorry just added in my previous post from the above Alex Sigal tweet

This seems like a big hole in the conclusion from the above tweet. So we tested and believe it’s this so we’ll say that but really we have no idea. 
 

If even legit guys are publishing this with low participants, short window, preprint and non-peer reviewed then what hope do we have!

Key thing to look for is if the research is peer reviewed. Until then it remains just a theory.

[Genie]

The efficient rules @chrisp65 mentioned previously

 

[foreveryoung]

35 minutes ago, hippo said:

They do.

And I work at the same trust as your partner. There is a totally separate vaccination program for staff. 

IME - all staff are wearing masks and personally I don't anyone unvaccinated. Admittedly that's from a small non clinical sample size.

I think it may be the younger staff. Many of the staff are seen walking through corridors with masks down and in Staff rooms apparently.

[chrisp65]

I do fear that a great amount of the credit and goodwill the Welsh Government has built up over the last 20 months has been poured down the drain this week.

To compound this error of common sense, they have also refused to release the data or the science they have based their decisions on.

To minimise the financial loss, the football has decided to halt the season for a few weeks. 60% of my club’s revenue comes through the turnstiles. Playing behind closed doors again just wasn’t an option without financial support. Unfortunately, because England aren’t in the same measures the Treasury of England isn’t dishing out compensation. So this particular round of closeures isn’t backed up with anything like the compensation required to stop sports teams etc closing.

Meanwhile, the shopping arcades of Cardiff and the out of town retail parks of Bridgend, entertain thousands upon thousands of people.

A bad decision and it will cost a lot politically. Every business that goes under, every sports club that shrinks, every printers that lays off staff will blame Mark Drakeford personally. His best hope now, is a spike of January / February hospitalisations in England that is markedly worse than elsewhere. I don’t see that happening.

He already had a big problem with the BBC’s never ending story about people being confused by different rules in different nations. The clear implication from the BBC being, we should just fall in with the English.

Now he has two fronts, the wilfully ignorant, and the people that just wanted to see something logical over the Christmas holidays.

Next week we all return to work. Or rather, we don’t. We’re supposed to work from home or face a police stop and a potential £60 fine if the police decide our reason for being out isn’t good enough. It’s laughably unenforceable. But the tories and the anti vaxxers have been handed an open goal and they will take it.

He needs to act logically, he needs to share the evidence trail, or he needs to open his own mint and start printing money. 

[bickster]

9 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I think it may be the younger staff. Many of the staff are seen walking through corridors with masks down and in Staff rooms apparently.

This is all the equivalent of the overheard in the hairdressers tweet from last week, it's hearsay and I really hope everyone that reads it treats it as such

[hippo]

15 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I do fear that a great amount of the credit and goodwill the Welsh Government has built up over the last 20 months has been poured down the drain this week.

To compound this error of common sense, they have also refused to release the data or the science they have based their decisions on.

To minimise the financial loss, the football has decided to halt the season for a few weeks. 60% of my club’s revenue comes through the turnstiles. Playing behind closed doors again just wasn’t an option without financial support. Unfortunately, because England aren’t in the same measures the Treasury of England isn’t dishing out compensation. So this particular round of closeures isn’t backed up with anything like the compensation required to stop sports teams etc closing.

Meanwhile, the shopping arcades of Cardiff and the out of town retail parks of Bridgend, entertain thousands upon thousands of people.

A bad decision and it will cost a lot politically. Every business that goes under, every sports club that shrinks, every printers that lays off staff will blame Mark Drakeford personally. His best hope now, is a spike of January / February hospitalisations in England that is markedly worse than elsewhere. I don’t see that happening.

He already had a big problem with the BBC’s never ending story about people being confused by different rules in different nations. The clear implication from the BBC being, we should just fall in with the English.

Now he has two fronts, the wilfully ignorant, and the people that just wanted to see something logical over the Christmas holidays.

Next week we all return to work. Or rather, we don’t. We’re supposed to work from home or face a police stop and a potential £60 fine if the police decide our reason for being out isn’t good enough. It’s laughably unenforceable. But the tories and the anti vaxxers have been handed an open goal and they will take it.

He needs to act logically, he needs to share the evidence trail, or he needs to open his own mint and start printing money. 

There isn't bombproof evidence either way. It's whether you gamble or err on the side of caution.

[hippo]

17 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I think it may be the younger staff. Many of the staff are seen walking through corridors with masks down and in Staff rooms apparently.

In the area I work. You mask up on site and in corridors. In staff only areas you social distance. (Some staff still mask up in these areas) That's the guidance. I have been sent.

[foreveryoung]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

This is all the equivalent of the overheard in the hairdressers tweet from last week, it's hearsay and I really hope everyone that reads it treats it as such

It's not hearsay chap, it's reality. My Mrs has to tell staff to put their mask on correctly or actually wear one every shift she's on. Many can't manage wearing a mask for 12 hours a day.

Anyway stop trying to disregard everything I post, if you don't want to believe it that's fine, others may want to hear it. I think the proof that infections of Omicron are through the roof proves many are not sticking to the rules and don't really care. Why you think it would be full proof in hospitals, especially how the NHS are run, I do not know.

[mjmooney]

On 24/12/2021 at 20:20, sidcow said:

Yesterday they were saying that probably 50% of anyone who had a cold probably actually had Covid. 

Frickin everyone has a cold right now.  I reckon it will peak before New Year because it will have infected pretty much everyone. 

Mrs M and I have had colds for well over a month now, and they just won't go away. No headaches, cough, loss of smell, etc., just streaming snotty head colds. All LF covid tests negative. 

[foreveryoung]

5 minutes ago, hippo said:

In the area I work. You mask up on site and in corridors. In staff only areas you social distance. (Some staff still mask up in these areas) That's the guidance. I have been sent.

Totally agree that's the guidance.

[nick76]

1 hour ago, a-k said:

Does it matter?

Of course it matters, not even sure you’ve explained to right correctly anyway, plus it’s based on only 15 participants and not peer reviewed.  Basically it’s just one step above a guess at the moment.

1 hour ago, a-k said:

I said the guy is legit, I didn't refer to the study. 15 participants is not ideal, but the paper is written in such a way that it is like a rapid report rather than full article. OK for quickly disseminating information in these times.

I never said you said anything about the study, I was just copying you in the comment.

15 participants is not ideal? Seems like a lot of people are saying it’s far from ideal and sending out that kind of information is far from good for a respected person unless he has a narrative.

Edited December 28, 2021 by nick76

[bickster]

5 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Anyway stop trying to disregard everything I post, if you don't want to believe it that's fine, others may want to hear it.

Stop posting hearsay as fact then

[a m ole]

Anything you disagree with @bannedfromHandV?

[chrisp65]

33 minutes ago, hippo said:

There isn't bombproof evidence either way. It's whether you gamble or err on the side of caution.

That’s right, that’s the reality. Except gambles in England will always have the backing of the Treasury to dampen the risk. 

It also doesn’t explain why a government would declare watching football indoors is safe enough to be ‘legal’, whilst watching it outdoors is currently dangerous enough for it to be ‘illegal’. I’d love to see any evidence they’ve gambled on, I’d suggest the evidence was incomplete and so the gamble was particularly poorly taken.  

 

[hippo]

10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

That’s right, that’s the reality. Except gambles in England will always have the backing of the Treasury to dampen the risk. 

It also doesn’t explain why a government would declare watching football indoors is safe enough to be ‘legal’, whilst watching it outdoors is currently dangerous enough for it to be ‘illegal’. I’d love to see any evidence they’ve gambled on, I’d suggest the evidence was incomplete and so the gamble was particularly poorly taken.  

 

I'm guessing at the bigger Welsh clubs 20,000 crowds have the potential to do more damage than much smaller indoor viewings.

Any rule, in any walk of life will throw up some anomalies you have to look at the broad thrust of what is trying to be achieved.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

4 hours ago, nick76 said:

Sorry just added in my previous post from the above Alex Sigal tweet

This seems like a big hole in the conclusion from the above tweet. So we tested and believe it’s this so we’ll say that but really we have no idea. 
 

If even legit guys are publishing this with low participants, short window, preprint and non-peer reviewed then what hope do we have!

All the things you say are very fair. There is nothing currently scientifically factual about the study. It is indeed a pre-print. I’d expect the findings will promote further studies and hopefully eventually translate into something more conclusive 

It’s been mentioned before that some people now just want to find glimmers of hope and positivity in something, anything.

I’d hope that nobody sees Tweets like that and thinks “Oooh, I’ll run out and lick the surfaces of my nearest COVID ward and gulp in the air cos if I get Omicron, I’ll be immune to Delta”. Those kind of people probably still think the vaccine contains microchips or that COVID is a hoax.

The small glimmers of positivity that are out there might just give some people a slight feeling of hope. Other people will, fairly, dismiss some of it, and need something more solid to lift their own views/thoughts about how things are and how they might play out.

edit: I concede on that Doctor Clare whoever. I didn’t think there was anything fundamentally wrong with that one particular video but, yes, it’s clear she has been shown to have certain views towards the extreme side of bonkers. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[sidcow]

2 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

I’d hope that nobody sees Tweets like that and thinks “Oooh, I’ll run out and lick the surfaces of my nearest COVID ward and gulp in the air cos if I get Omicron, I’ll be immune to Delta”. 

 

[Ingram85]

2 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

It's not hearsay chap, it's reality. My Mrs has to tell staff to put their mask on correctly or actually wear one every shift she's on. Many can't manage wearing a mask for 12 hours a day.

Because it **** hurts like **** to wear one for 12 hours a day. People don’t wear masks at all in the shops or anywhere else it seems every time I go out at the moment let alone a few minutes or an hour to do their groceries but the people in them 40 hours a week get crap for dropping them down to relieve the horrible pressure on their nose/ears for a few minutes lol.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Ingram85

[sidcow]

I do feel really sorry for people who have to wear them for their job. Even a quick trip to the shops or my 15 minute train ride into town I can't wait to pull the mask down. 

I couldn't bear to be wearing them for hours on end. 

[Davkaus]

I've been wearing them for 12-14 hours a day for the last week, and it isn't particularly pleasant but after a while, I forget it's there. It's more a nuisance than anytthing else. Painful seems very strange.