Generic Virus Thread

[sidcow]

I think we need to wait for the peer review on this one

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/covid-brain-clot-astrazeneca-vaccine-b1831876.html

Covid eight times more likely to cause rare brain clot than AstraZeneca vaccine, study finds

The Covid-19 risk is higher than seen with the current vaccines, even for those under 30,’ says study co-author

Quote

The risk of developing a rare brain clot from Covid-19 is about eight times greater than vaccination with the AstraZeneca-Oxford jab, according to a new study.

Researchers at the University of Oxford, who are not linked to the vaccine, also found that people infected with coronavirus are “manyfold times” more likely than normal to develop the rare clotting disorder, known as cerebral venous thrombosis (CVT), where blood clots in the veins that run from the brain.

“There's no doubt that Covid is a much greater risk of this [condition] than any of the vaccines,” said Professor Paul Harrison, a co-author of the study.

Quote

The research, which has yet to be peer-reviewed, compared the rate of CVT among more than 500,000 Covid-19 patients in the US with data from the administration of 34 million AstraZeneca doses across Europe.

For Covid-19, the incidence rate of CVT stands at 39 cases per one million people, the study showed. But for a million people who receive the AstraZeneca vaccine, there will be just five cases of CVT over a two-week period.

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by sidcow

[KenjiOgiwara]

7 minutes ago, limpid said:

So the tiny bit of data that you have produced are not relevant.

On what data have you drawn your conclusion about the AZ vaccine's safety? Is it simply that you have found a coincidence to be scary? I can understand that.

No, I'm not sure you understand. I used 8-10 as a yardstick for brain hemos in general. In this context you actually need to look at the rarity of the combining illnesses. That's why it's so deadly. Which is why your initial post doesn't hit the mark for me. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

15 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I rest my case. 

I repeat. Can you expand on this? 

[KenjiOgiwara]

People still talking about covid vs AZ vaccine lol. I give up. Call me when you understand there are other vaccines out there that are better. 

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

People still talking about covid vs AZ vaccine lol. I give up. Call me when you understand there are other vaccines out there that are better. 

Such as?

[blandy]

2 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I repeat. Can you expand on this? 

I can't answer for Mike, but I can say what I perceive to be his case:

It's this - Covid has killed a 'mungous number of people. Of those deaths the vast majority have been as a result of breathing problems, of the bodies system attacking itself and causing organ failure and so on. But a tiny, tiny fraction of deaths have been as a result of blood clots. That fraction is tiny, so generally goes unremarked upon, because of all the massive number of non-clot related outcomes. It's insignificant and unremarkable.

Now take the AZ vaccine. A similar thing applies. Of all the outcomes from the vaccine, a tiny tiny fraction have led to blood clots. A smaller fraction than even for the virus.

The case therefore being that these tiny tiny fractions are being treated completely differently - in one case "not mentioned, no big deal, completely unremarkable" yet in the other it's "Oh my God, we're all gonna die of clots, I'm not touching that vaccine". To many that seems an over-reaction. 

I should say that your personal choice, to avoid AZ and go for an alternative vaccine is entirely valid and sensible. I'm talking generally. People avoiding any vaccine because of perceived risk around clotting are behaving irrationally.

[Genie]

Link

Quote

A study by Oxford University found the number of people who receive blood clots after getting vaccinated with a coronavirus vaccine are about the same for those who get Pfizer PFE and Moderna MRNAvaccines as they are for the AstraZenecaAZN vaccine that was produced with the university's help. According to the study, 4 in 1 million people experience cerebral venous thrombosis after getting the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, versus 5 in 1 million people for the AstraZeneca vaccine. The risk of getting CVT is much higher for those who get COVID-19 -- 39 in a million patients -- than it is for those for get vaccinated.

 

[sidcow]

17 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

People still talking about covid vs AZ vaccine lol. I give up. Call me when you understand there are other vaccines out there that are better. 

Call me when you can get one before thousands are dead instead of 4

Edited April 15, 2021 by sidcow

[sidcow]

Interesting.  There ARE also statistics backing up clots in the other vaccines.  But like I said this needs peer reviewing.  No one is frankly going to believe anything from Oxford about an Oxford vaccine right now.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-15/risk-of-clots-higher-with-covid-than-after-vaccine-study-says

Risk of Clots Higher With Covid Than After Vaccine, Study Says

Quote

The risk of blood clots among those who’ve been diagnosed with Covid-19 is higher than among those who’ve received vaccines against the disease, according to a new study from the University of Oxford.

Covid patients saw a clot risk of 39 in a million. That compared with four in a million in mRNA vaccines like those developed by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE or Moderna Inc., and five in a million people after AstraZeneca Plc’s vaccine. Though the analyses for the three vaccines are based on different data sets, making comparisons difficult, the study suggests that the risk of a clot among those with the disease is about eight to 10 times higher than after vaccination.

Quote

“All the evidence we have is that risks of Covid are so much greater than whatever the risks of the vaccines might be,” Paul Harrison, professor of psychiatry at Oxford and one of the study’s authors, said in a briefing. “And unfortunately you might think you’re not going to catch it, but I think everybody would agree there’s a risk of catching Covid in the current climate.”

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by sidcow

[darrenm]

32 minutes ago, sidcow said:

No one is frankly going to believe anything from Oxford about an Oxford vaccine right now.

Why?

[bickster]

15 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Why?

Because most people (journalists included) don't understand how scientific research and academia works

[Dante_Lockhart]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

Obviously it’s completely your choice.

You can tell me it’s none of my business if you want, but do you take any other regular medication for existing conditions? 
Did you ever look into or become concerned about potential for side affects? I don’t think people generally do. We trust that our GP or Consultant has weighed up the risks on our behalf when prescribing.

1 in a million chance of a blood clot is probably far less risk than many of the drugs people are taking everyday without a second thought. As has been said, it’s far less risk than many activities like taking a flight or trip in the car.

It’s just funny how something gets tagged a “dangerous” or “ineffective” when in reality it’s incredibly good all things considered. Shaking that label off is very hard once it’s been attached (because as I said, there’s a new distrust of experts).
 

Nope. No medication. Generally I think pretty healthy. I've never had the flu jab and don't intend to. Obviously in dire situations if antibiotics are required I'll take them. I'm not against modern medicine by any means - but if I don't feel that I need 'outside assistance' medically then I won't do so just because. I'm a big advocate of the immune system.

[sidcow]

15 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Why?

Oxford vaccine being panned around the world and suddenly Oxford come out with a study saying it's probably not do do with their vaccine. 

You don't think there will be a lot of suspicious people? 

[fightoffyour]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

But then it comes back to what are the chances of catching Covid and what are the subsequent chances of falling ill with it, then subsequently the chances of falling seriously ill........all versus actively volunteering to have the vaccine jabbed into you.

Well if a person has a 1 in 8 chance of catching Covid then that would imply that the chances of catching Covid and getting a blood clot from it are the same as getting a blood clot from a vaccine.

I would guess that the chances of catching Covid are higher than 1/8, but I can’t be sure - although 4.4 million people in the uk have already been confirmed to have caught it so that would probably be enough to back up my assumption.

And of course I’m only talking about blood clots here. That’s not even factoring in the much greater risks of Covid having an affect in the ways that we more commonly hear about.

Edited April 15, 2021 by fightoffyour

[bickster]

Just now, Dante_Lockhart said:

Nope. No medication. Generally I think pretty healthy. I've never had the flu jab and don't intend to. Obviously in dire situations if antibiotics are required I'll take them. I'm not against modern medicine by any means - but if I don't feel that I need 'outside assistance' medically then I won't do so just because. I'm a big advocate of the immune system.

Measles, mumps, rubella, TB, tetanus, you never had any of those? 

[sidcow]

2 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

 I'm a big advocate of the immune system.

The immune system is absolutely amazing. If only we could find a way to focus it on certain things it could start a revolution. 

[fightoffyour]

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

Measles, mumps, rubella, TB, tetanus, you never had any of those? 

[Jareth]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

Link

 

IF accurate it wouldn't surprise me at all - everyone has had it in for the Oxford jab ever since they insisted on selling at cost price in order to help poorer countries - the US has especially avoided using it since the get-go and will happily put it down at any opportunity. 

[Jareth]

4 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

Nope. No medication. Generally I think pretty healthy. I've never had the flu jab and don't intend to. Obviously in dire situations if antibiotics are required I'll take them. I'm not against modern medicine by any means - but if I don't feel that I need 'outside assistance' medically then I won't do so just because. I'm a big advocate of the immune system.

Look man, it's cool to be a Jehova Witness. 

[brommy]

One can choose to see these round figures relative to COVID or not but In any aspect of life, enduring a 1 in 10,000 monthly risk of death whilst waiting for a 1 in a million risk of death ‘cure’, instead of immediately taking the 1 in 800k risk cure, doesn’t make sense.

It’s as though some consider the AZ to be deeply flawed whilst the alternative vaccines are perfect. The real life numbers don’t indicate either.

Perhaps risk analysis should be on the general education curriculum.