Generic Virus Thread

[sidcow]

26 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

It's obviously a completely moronic analogy, but he has to continue with it now. 

Moronic. wow, thanks for the self esteem boost.  Not that is was even my analogy in the first place.

Edited April 15, 2021 by sidcow

[bannedfromHandV]

4 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I have no stance to justify.  I'm simply answering your question. That report said 2.7% of under 30's died in their sample.  That's more than the 1% who die of Coronavirus.

It’s 2.7% of a small sample size of people who ended up in hospital, that’s far from representative on the whole unless I’m misunderstanding it.

As we already well know, many people will have had the virus without even knowing it, some will have it right now without knowing it, none of those people are factored in as they’ve never been recorded, that’s just one aspect that would alter the type of data you’re posting.

[sidcow]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

It’s 2.7% of a small sample size of people who ended up in hospital, that’s far from representative on the whole unless I’m misunderstanding it.

As we already well know, many people will have had the virus without even knowing it, some will have it right now without knowing it, none of those people are factored in as they’ve never been recorded, that’s just one aspect that would alter the type of data you’re posting.

You responded before my edit.  I get your point but it's almost inevitable that unvaccinated people are gong to get infected, especially once we we open up.

[Ingram85]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

I think that 8 in 10 being correct is not exactly the "might as well wave your finger in the air" description that was being bandied around before though.   Identifying 8 in 10 infections almost immediately they occur is a vital tool.

If 2 in 10 planes went down would you get on one?

If 2 in 10 cars exploded on ignition would you get in one?

Let’s say just under half the population of just England are doing the tests, so 25,000,000 for arguments sake. That’s 4.5m failed tests and that’s just doing it once. Guidance says to do the lft twice a week, so that’s 9 million failed tests a week. 36 million failed tests a month. 

I stand by my previous comment.

[KenjiOgiwara]

4 minutes ago, limpid said:

Please show the data. Size of cohort and numbers of adverse reactions compared with the expected incidence of those reactions in the general population. I can do the same for my data, but it's already been posted many times in this thread.

I can't be arsed to do that work for you. It's obvious it's the case. Just contact FHI.no if you're interested and want to do the numbers. 

The combination of bleedings and clots would be an anomaly over a year. Over a two week period it's a problem to put it mildly. 

IIRC 8-10 people are dying every day in Norway from brain hemo. Most of them old people or people exposed to physical trauma. Adding the age group and the combination issue here and the statistics wouldn't look pretty. 

But all of this still is completely irrelevant when it comes to people taking the vaccine. Trust of a vaccine is everything. Those in risk groups will often be willing to take the risk, but those who aren't won't. Thus why take AZ when you can take Pfizer. Until Pfizer and Moderna start having the same PR nightmare here, that won't change. 

[sidcow]

Just now, Ingram85 said:

If 2 in 10 planes went down would you get on one?

If 2 in 10 cars exploded on ignition would you get in one?

Let’s say just under half the population of just England are doing the tests, so 25,000,000 for arguments sake. That’s 4.5m failed tests and that’s just doing it once. Guidance says to do the lft twice a week, so that’s 9 million failed tests a week. 36 million failed tests a month. 

I stand by my previous comment.

You are confusing risking certain death with being diagnosed with a disease which I really need to know about.  You've got it the wrong way round.

[bickster]

New Study: Covid 8 times more likely to cause Blood Clots than the AZ vaccine (its just been published in the Indy)

[Ingram85]

Just now, sidcow said:

You are confusing risking certain death with being diagnosed with a disease which I really need to know about.  You've got it the wrong way round.

So ignore the first two bits. Does 36 million failed tests a month not make them unfit for purpose?

[limpid]

2 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I can't be arsed to do that work for you. It's obvious it's the case. Just contact FHI.no if you're interested and want to do the numbers. 

The combination of bleedings and clots would be an anomaly over a year. Over a two week period it's a problem to put it mildly. 

IIRC 8-10 people are dying every day in Norway from brain hemo. Most of them old people or people exposed to physical trauma. Adding the age group and the combination issue here and the statistics wouldn't look pretty. 

But all of this still is completely irrelevant when it comes to people taking the vaccine. Trust of a vaccine is everything. Those in risk groups will often be willing to take the risk, but those who aren't won't. Thus why take AZ when you can take Pfizer. Until Pfizer and Moderna start having the same PR nightmare here, that won't change. 

We can't debate without data.

If 8-10 people die every day in Norway from clots, then if only three nurses died in 14 days then this is within your error bar of 2 per day. If it was three cases out of a small cohort, then that would need to be investigated, but you haven't shown how many have been vaccinated (your cohort) so it's unsafe to draw any conclusions.

[bannedfromHandV]

10 minutes ago, sidcow said:

You responded before my edit.  I get your point but it's almost inevitable that unvaccinated people are gong to get infected, especially once we we open up.

Yes it is, just as it’s almost certain people will catch colds, flu’s and various other bugs, almost certain people will break bones playing sport, kids will fall out of trees and bump their heads in their homes, old people will continue to fall and break their hips, in short, life goes on.

This is not World War Z, our species is not under threat, at least not from this virus as it stands.

[KenjiOgiwara]

4 minutes ago, limpid said:

We can't debate without data.

If 8-10 people die every day in Norway from clots, then if only three nurses died in 14 days then this is within your error bar of 2 per day. If it was three cases out of a small cohort, then that would need to be investigated, but you haven't shown how many have been vaccinated (your cohort) so it's unsafe to draw any conclusions.

Apples and oranges. Like I tried to point out. It's the combination of bleeding and clots that the main issue here. Which creates completely different numbers. 

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Apples and oranges. Like I tried to point out. It's the combination of bleeding and clots that the main issue here. Which creates completely different numbers. 

AZ Vaccine causes less clots than Covid itself by a factor of 8

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

AZ Vaccine causes less clots than Covid itself by a factor of 8

Covid does a few other things tho. I've never heard of anyone being worried about covid because of clots or hemos. Is that a known issue? 

[sidcow]

15 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

So ignore the first two bits. Does 36 million failed tests a month not make them unfit for purpose?

Well no, not of they are correctly identifying 80% of people who actually do have the virus.  I think that's then excellent.  Jesus, imagine how many spreads of the virus are cut out by that!  

Are you seriously trying to say that catching 8 out of over 10 coronavirus infections is not a good thing?

[mjmooney]

1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I've never heard of anyone being worried about covid because of clots or hemos.

I rest my case. 

[sidcow]

12 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Yes it is, just as it’s almost certain people will catch colds, flu’s and various other bugs, almost certain people will break bones playing sport, kids will fall out of trees and bump their heads in their homes, old people will continue to fall and break their hips, in short, life goes on.

This is not World War Z, our species is not under threat, at least not from this virus as it stands.

I'm sorry, you've completely lost me.  I'm simply arguing that taking the AZv vaccine is better for mankind than not taking it.  if you don't think it is than I'm just very glad you are not in charge.

[bannedfromHandV]

4 minutes ago, bickster said:

AZ Vaccine causes less clots than Covid itself by a factor of 8

But then it comes back to what are the chances of catching Covid and what are the subsequent chances of falling ill with it, then subsequently the chances of falling seriously ill........all versus actively volunteering to have the vaccine jabbed into you.

I’m not saying there’s a right or wrong opinion or viewpoint on this, I’m just trying to find some balance in the conversation because all anyone seems to be doing is finding stats and percentages to backup their stance.

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 minute ago, mjmooney said:

I rest my case. 

Is it a known issue? I thought it was almost exclusively respiratory. 

[bannedfromHandV]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

I'm sorry, you've completely lost me.  I'm simply arguing that taking the AZv vaccine is better for mankind than not taking it.  if you don't think it is than I'm just very glad you are not in charge.

Okay cool, we were having a reasonable debate but it just ends in a cheap jibe, let’s call it a day.

[limpid]

3 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Apples and oranges. Like I tried to point out. It's the combination of bleeding and clots that the main issue here. Which creates completely different numbers. 

So the tiny bit of data that you have produced are not relevant.

On what data have you drawn your conclusion about the AZ vaccine's safety? Is it simply that you have found a coincidence to be scary? I can understand that.