Tommo_b Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 On 04/09/2023 at 16:05, MrBlack said: He's had 3 fewer games and is already ahead of him. I don't think it's unreasonable to say he might outscore him. Unlikely, maybe, but on evidence so far, its absolutely possible he will get near the same total. That's not a dig at Watkins nor is it a sign that Archer should 100% be signed back if he does. Archer's in a team built around the forward scoring goals, Watkins is in a team that has scored 8 goals in 4 games, none of which were scored by the striker. Hasn’t he only scored one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Tommo_b said: Hasn’t he only scored one? Yup, and still more than Watkins (in the league which was the context of what we were talking about, unless you were going to judge it based on competitions Sheffied United aren't even in) Edited September 5, 2023 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 On 03/09/2023 at 17:25, LondonLax said: Would be a bit embarrassing if he scores more than Watkins this season Embarrassing for who? It’s the team outcome, and I can guarantee Villa will finish higher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 On 03/09/2023 at 15:25, LondonLax said: Would be a bit embarrassing if he scores more than Watkins this season Ollie will be flat out padding his stats with conference league goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted September 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 6, 2023 It feels like there’s a few variables with the Archer buyback deal. He scores 10 goals and Sheffield United are relegated, it’s probably worthwhile to invoke the clause and buy him back for £20m. He would have proven he can score at this level but I would guess it probably wouldn’t be enough for us to keep him, so I assume we would sell for a higher fee. That’s assuming that (a) the buy back clause is for £20m and (b) it’s not an automatic buy back clause which it’s been suggested it is. If the suggestion that should Sheffield United stay up the buy back becomes £40m is indeed correct, it would be interesting to know how many goals/how successful Archer will have needed to be merit us buying him back and proceeding from there. It feels to me like there’s theoretical points whereby we say “Ok he’s done well enough we’ll definitely buy him back, let’s hope Sheffield United are relegated.” or we say “Huh, it looks like they’re staying up, Archer probably needs to bag a a few more to warrant the clause being activated.” Again, assuming these rumoured elements of the deal are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 6, 2023 Author Share Posted September 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Mark Albrighton said: It feels like there’s a few variables with the Archer buyback deal. He scores 10 goals and Sheffield United are relegated, it’s probably worthwhile to invoke the clause and buy him back for £20m. He would have proven he can score at this level but I would guess it probably wouldn’t be enough for us to keep him, so I assume we would sell for a higher fee. That’s assuming that (a) the buy back clause is for £20m and (b) it’s not an automatic buy back clause which it’s been suggested it is. If the suggestion that should Sheffield United stay up the buy back becomes £40m is indeed correct, it would be interesting to know how many goals/how successful Archer will have needed to be merit us buying him back and proceeding from there. It feels to me like there’s theoretical points whereby we say “Ok he’s done well enough we’ll definitely buy him back, let’s hope Sheffield United are relegated.” or we say “Huh, it looks like they’re staying up, Archer probably needs to bag a a few more to warrant the clause being activated.” Again, assuming these rumoured elements of the deal are correct. I think we are aware of his goalscoring abilities. I think the club will be looking more at his all round play before we decide to bring him back. I also guess we have told Archer what to improve on during the season as Emery and Monchi wont leave things to chance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted September 6, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Zatman said: I think we are aware of his goalscoring abilities. I think the club will be looking more at his all round play before we decide to bring him back. I also guess we have told Archer what to improve on during the season as Emery and Monchi wont leave things to chance Yeah I get that we’d be interested in Archer being utilised for the club if he were to perform in a manner that suggests he could play in this current Villa side - be a bit more Watkins-y, if you like. I suppose I’m thinking about it in colder, practical terms if it were to be the case that the guy definitely wouldn’t fit in with Emery’s style…but that he’s a born goal scorer who would be an attractive option in the right set up at another club. Let’s say he scores 17/18 goals this season. But it’s mainly goal poacher stuff, his hold up play, creativity isn’t anything to write home about, he probably wouldn’t be of much use in the Villa side. But scoring 17/18 goals…not many players do that these days. And the ones that do are very expensive. Assuming Sheff Utd stay up due in part to his goal tally, we activate the higher(?) buy back clause and hope (or know in advance) that we could then sell him to another club for a higher price? Basically bank a quick and sizeable FFP profit. That’s my general musing. I’ve guesstimated a figure of 17/18 goals would be sufficient enough for Villa to think we could get more for him after bringing him back, but I don’t know. There will be more nuances to it, his overall play. But I can’t help but feel that he’s ultimately going to be judged how many goals he manages. I’d personally be down for having him as an option for us if he was scoring that sort of number even if the rest of his game had limitations. But as you say I think Emery is looking more for his all round game when it comes to us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 Does anybody really know the full facts of the deal and the buyback clause. There's so much guess work and opinions on here. The way I see it he's not our player anymore and we are short of options up front this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 7, 2023 Author Share Posted September 7, 2023 1 hour ago, PaulC said: Does anybody really know the full facts of the deal and the buyback clause. There's so much guess work and opinions on here. The way I see it he's not our player anymore and we are short of options up front this season. We have 9 attackers for 3 positions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 5 hours ago, PaulC said: Does anybody really know the full facts of the deal and the buyback clause. There's so much guess work and opinions on here. As with all of our transfers nobody really has a clue. But we won't let that stop us from complaining. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 On 07/09/2023 at 09:57, Zatman said: We have 9 attackers for 3 positions If you swap our defensive injuries to those 9 we would have only 4. It looks find because our injuries are at the back. If we lose Watkins to injury or fatigue then we have very little for that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 11, 2023 Author Share Posted September 11, 2023 52 minutes ago, kidlewis said: If you swap our defensive injuries to those 9 we would have only 4. It looks find because our injuries are at the back. If we lose Watkins to injury or fatigue then we have very little for that position. Watkins probably wont start the Everton game or 3 of the Europa games Even if Watkins does get injured, we wouldnt be starting games with Archer as Unai prefers Duran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 After a promising debut has done very little since Gosh after yesterday's hammering god knows where they go from here They prob wont see best of archee until next season when they go down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 50 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: After a promising debut has done very little since Gosh after yesterday's hammering god knows where they go from here They prob wont see best of archee until next season when they go down Don't we have to buy Archer back if/when they're relegated (I could be making that up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 25, 2023 Author Share Posted September 25, 2023 17 minutes ago, pas5898 said: Don't we have to buy Archer back if/when they're relegated (I could be making that up). We have one chance to buy him back and thats next summer. Price is different if they go down or stay up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 Win/win for Villa, hopefully Archer can score a few goals and get valuable experience in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 25, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2023 We won't be buying him back 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted September 25, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2023 30 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: We won't be buying him back There has been a suggestion, I believe from Alan Nixon, that there’s an automatic buy back clause if Sheffield United are relegated with a value of a touch over what they paid us. Absolutely no idea whether that’s true. I can’t think of a deal like that previously or whether anything like takes place often in Spain so Emery/Monchi would be familiar and keen on it. But the suggestion was being made at the time of the transfer. From what I could see at the time, enough Sheffield United supporters seemed to accept it. If it doesn’t exist and Archer has a drab season, Sheff Utd are relegated, yep we won’t be activating the clause. I think he would be needing to get to around double figures for us to do so (and even then it’s probable the intention would be to move him on again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 It’s two tough games to be fair. He’ll need to earn his money in the relegation fights. Though that being said, you can see why Unai didn’t rate him here. Too much of Danny Ings about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 25, 2023 Author Share Posted September 25, 2023 I personally dont think we will bring him back as not sure Unai rates him but its impossible to judge his performances based on his team. Benteke played in an 8-0 loss for example 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts