Marvelous Nakamba

[TRO]

20 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I still see Doug more as more of a box to box midfielder over a DM if I'm honest, but not many agree.

I agree 100%

Dougie's first instinct is towards the offensive side of the game, his stature/ nature is not commensurate with that position....you need much tenacity and aggression for  that role, i don't see that in him.....he may produce it in time, i don't know, he's 22 so he could.....i am just commenting on the now.

Marvellous, is not as gifted on the ball or passing....but his nature is to deny the opposition, with more vigour and conviction.

Edited February 7, 2021 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

He played well but I also think it helps whoever plays that role if McGinn plays close to him instead of bombing forward.  Whether it be Luiz or Nakamba, they can’t be left isolated like against West Ham. 

[TRO]

17 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

He played well but I also think it helps whoever plays that role if McGinn plays close to him instead of bombing forward.  Whether it be Luiz or Nakamba, they can’t be left isolated like against West Ham. 

I agree, with that, but that is what happens when you have 2 holding players with attacking prowess and get sucked in to the action and fun upfront.

Dougies fabulous return ball to Jack for his  recent goal was an example of possibly being out of position, if we lost the ball and the opposition broke.

[PaulC]

On 06/02/2021 at 23:36, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I still see Doug more as more of a box to box midfielder over a DM if I'm honest, but not many agree.

Dying breed now aren't they with current tactics

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Just now, PaulC said:

Dying breed now aren't they with current tactics

Bring Steve Sidwell home?

[PaulC]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Bring Steve Sidwell home?

I was thinking further back to Platty

[omariqy]

22 hours ago, TRO said:

I agree 100%

Dougie's first instinct is towards the offensive side of the game, his stature/ nature is not commensurate with that position....you need much tenacity and aggression for  that role, i don't see that in him.....he may produce it in time, i don't know, he's 22 so he could.....i am just commenting on the now.

Marvellous, is not as gifted on the ball or passing....but his nature is to deny the opposition, with more vigour and conviction.

Horses for courses for me. Luiz's level of aggression and strength is fine and massively improved. However, where he falters as a DM is anticipation. He doesn't always read the cut back or intercept the ball. Nakamba does this well. Luiz is more of an 8 for me but equally I think he can play as a 2 against certain teams where we will have the ball. 

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Horses for courses for me. Luiz's level of aggression and strength is fine and massively improved. However, where he falters as a DM is anticipation. He doesn't always read the cut back or intercept the ball. Nakamba does this well. Luiz is more of an 8 for me but equally I think he can play as a 2 against certain teams where we will have the ball. 

I agree in part.....I don't see the strength and Aggression you see, not this season anyway.... the rest, yeah.

Edited February 8, 2021 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I agree, with that, but that is what happens when you have 2 holding players with attacking prowess and get sucked in to the action and fun upfront.

Dougies fabulous return ball to Jack for his  recent goal was an example of possibly being out of position, if we lost the ball and the opposition broke.

I see where you are coming from but for all Nakamba’s defensive qualities he is not very good on the ball. So he can’t drop between the centre halves to collect from Martinez to start off attacks from the back. Not having Luiz in the team is one of the reasons we couldn’t keep the ball.  He may not be the defensive midfielder many want in the team. But I still thinks he offers more than Nakamba. 
 

We don’t just need defensive instincts and aggression in that position. We need someone  that is very comfortable on the ball under pressure and links the play together. Luiz is always available for a pass which is very important to how we play.

[TRO]

17 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I see where you are coming from but for all Nakamba’s defensive qualities he is not very good on the ball. So he can’t drop between the centre halves to collect from Martinez to start off attacks from the back. Not having Luiz in the team is one of the reasons we couldn’t keep the ball.  He may not be the defensive midfielder many want in the team. But I still thinks he offers more than Nakamba. 
 

We don’t just need defensive instincts and aggression in that position. We need someone  that is very comfortable on the ball under pressure and links the play together. Luiz is always available for a pass which is very important to how we play.

Now I do acknowledge that....thats why we need a higher quality version who have both.....unless of course Dougie, being 22 develops in the the role, which I hope he does.

We don't just need it, but we need it.....some think Dougie offers that, I don't, talking generally of course.....think he won a good sliding tackle in front of MIngs just recently, so he does do it, not enough for me.

if you cast your mind back to Sid Cowans and before him Alex Cropley, they both could do it......win the ball back and put it on a sixpence.....this is what better quality does, it gives you more... we will get there.

I think it is very difficult to compare a defender with an attacker and talk about who is "better" they are both crucial.....I accept Dougie is better on the ball, better ball control and distribution and an eye for a pass, no disputing that from me....However, I think Dean did the right thing against Arsenal and the final result is hard to argue with.

you must know me by know, whilst I do love swashbuckling football and all the thrills and spills.....I am always wary of the teams that want to spoil that and break the lines and exploit the space we need to play it and we can so easily go from a 4-0 win to 2-1 defeat, next game.

I am not saying every week or every match, but there is something cunning, contrary and mischievous about a 1-0 win for me, it kinda shows devilment.....its like, How do you stop a team doing that, it seems to have a stubborn edge to it, like a team no one wants to play....how do you set up to stop a 1-0 its not easy...the soft underbelly, will disappear,in time,sure of it.

I can remember just about all the great passages of play, we have had this season and its been fabulous, wouldn't change it......but I would be telling fibs, If I didn't tell you the 11 clean sheets makes me purr with satisfaction, that progress, really is tangible.

If we can mix it a bit better, more consistently more of a hybrid..in the future, I will be delighted.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by TRO

[Laughable Chimp]

39 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I see where you are coming from but for all Nakamba’s defensive qualities he is not very good on the ball. So he can’t drop between the centre halves to collect from Martinez to start off attacks from the back. Not having Luiz in the team is one of the reasons we couldn’t keep the ball.  He may not be the defensive midfielder many want in the team. But I still thinks he offers more than Nakamba. 
 

We don’t just need defensive instincts and aggression in that position. We need someone  that is very comfortable on the ball under pressure and links the play together. Luiz is always available for a pass which is very important to how we play.

Nakamba has a higher passing accuracy than Luiz for this season and last season. You could argue Luiz is better at long ball passing, but their short passing stats are near identical.

I don't think Nakamba loses the ball as much as people think.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Laughable Chimp

[Ned]

Nakamba for me is all about winning the ball back quickly and giving it off quicker. Luiz sees more of the game develop around him. Different players and we could accommodate both with Luiz having to adapt. 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

38 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Nakamba has a higher passing accuracy than Luiz for this season and last season. You could argue Luiz is better at long ball passing, but their short passing stats are near identical.

I don't think Nakamba loses the ball as much as people think.

It’s not that he loses the ball. It’s that he can’t take it in tight situations when being pressed. Many times Emi booted it rather than passing it to Nakamba in situations when he would normally give it to Luiz. 

[PaulC]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It’s not that he loses the ball. It’s that he can’t take it in tight situations when being pressed. Many times Emi booted it rather than passing it to Nakamba in situations when he would normally give it to Luiz. 

Which of course invites pressure in itself. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

12 hours ago, PaulC said:

Which of course invites pressure in itself. 

It does. I guess it depends how we want to play. Do we want to be team that wants to work it from the back and beat the press or the team that wants to just smash it upfield and give the ball straight back. I guess it all depends on the opposition.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Vive_La_Villa

[Follyfoot]

3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It does. I guess it depends how we want to play. Do we want to be team that wants to work it from the back and beat the press or the team that wants to just smash it upfield and give the ball. I guess it all depends on the opposition.

 

How about mixing it up during the game with a bit of each, would put a lot of opposition in sixes and sevens of how to play us

[PaulC]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It does. I guess it depends how we want to play. Do we want to be team that wants to work it from the back and beat the press or the team that wants to just smash it upfield and give the ball. I guess it all depends on the opposition.

 

I want us to play like we did against Arsenal at the emirates not Villa Park. Yes we got the result but we conceded an awful lot of poessesion which on another day could have cost us. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

Just now, Follyfoot said:

How about mixing it up during the game with a bit of each, would put a lot of opposition in sixes and sevens of how to play us

I think we normally do. Mings goes long a lot. I think on Saturday we went long a lot more than we normally would. But then we didn’t have much of the ball to be fair. 

[Ned]

50 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It does. I guess it depends how we want to play. Do we want to be team that wants to work it from the back and beat the press or the team that wants to just smash it upfield and give the ball. I guess it all depends on the opposition.

 

I'd say we want to be the team that can adapt to all scenarios. Playing alongside Doug, who buys the defence more time, our attacking players fall back into position. When Nakamba is playing, our attacking players do the same but there is a far higher chance of Nakamba breaking up the play in the first few phases.

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think we normally do. Mings goes long a lot. I think on Saturday we went long a lot more than we normally would. But then we didn’t have much of the ball to be fair. 

We were certainly hitting it quick and long into the corners as soon as the defence picked it up on Saturday instead of just playing it to one of the midfielders.

Could be just due to Doug not playing as he can start off the moves while that isn't a strong point for Marvellous or it was a weakness we identified from watching Arsenal before. Or we scored the goal from them making a mistake from a long ball from us so decided to use that tactic for rest of first half.