sir_gary_cahill Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 31 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Hence, their not the best. Some of our defending this season has been embarrassing. Mings, for all his so called leadership qualities, has arguably been the most disappointing. I can think of a few games where is incompetence has cost us precious points. We need a defender whose presence commands respect. Someone who inspires confidence in the players around him. And until we get a defender of that ilk, we are going to suffer. We have been found seriously wanting when it comes to the psychological side of the game. How could a team throw so many winning positions away? I honestly think some of our defenders are not up to the challenge of the Premier league. Who do you think is the best? This is Mings’ first full season in the Premier League, he started the season in great form but his form dipped, there is no reason why he can’t get back to his previous form Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I like Engels but even he's had his moments. I don't think Mings is as good as the hype suggested. Konsa, flatters to deceive. As for Hause, there's a reason why Wolves didn't fancy him. We definitely need recruitment in that department. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 On 17/05/2020 at 23:30, sheepyvillian said: I like Engels but even he's had his moments. I don't think Mings is as good as the hype suggested. Konsa, flatters to deceive. As for Hause, there's a reason why Wolves didn't fancy him. We definitely need recruitment in that department. I agree with all of that. However, I would like to see them play, with a much better midfield in front of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 15 hours ago, TRO said: I agree with all of that. However, I would like to see them play, with a much better midfield in front of them. That's the big one for me.....midfield. Personally I think Mings and Engels, with Konsa as backup should be adequate for the Prem (and a new development player alongside konsa as backup - not hause), I think however that the defence are badly let down by the players ahead of them, we have no real bite in midfield, hopefully mcginn can add some energy and tenacity back in to that midfield when he returns, and maybe raise the game of players around him. You can argue whether McGinn has been technically as good as expected this season when he did play, but regardless he gives effort, energy and tenacity 100% of the time, which is something we are missing badly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Engels is too slow to me. Konsa is younger and they are around the same level. I'd stick with Konsa and Mings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 3 hours ago, MaVilla said: That's the big one for me.....midfield. Personally I think Mings and Engels, with Konsa as backup should be adequate for the Prem (and a new development player alongside konsa as backup - not hause), I think however that the defence are badly let down by the players ahead of them, we have no real bite in midfield, hopefully mcginn can add some energy and tenacity back in to that midfield when he returns, and maybe raise the game of players around him. You can argue whether McGinn has been technically as good as expected this season when he did play, but regardless he gives effort, energy and tenacity 100% of the time, which is something we are missing badly. Even the old England players was pleased Vinny Jones turned up on "England Euro having a laugh" They all said at least we have some steel now....when he walked in. even a light hearted programme like that recognise the need for steel. I hope Dean was watching it and picked it up, because so far, i can't see he is aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 32 minutes ago, TRO said: Even the old England players was pleased Vinny Jones turned up on "England Euro having a laugh" They all said at least we have some steel now....when he walked in. even a light hearted programme like that recognise the need for steel. I hope Dean was watching it and picked it up, because so far, i can't see he is aware. TRO, Jones was an awful footballer who played in a team of thugs, and he happened to be the biggest thug of them all. At least the likes of Souness and Keane could actually play a bit, but I'm sorry, when it comes to Jones, I can't find any redeeming qualities. Incidentally, even his acting career mirrored his footballing one. All his roles were of the stereotypical thug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said: TRO, Jones was an awful footballer who played in a team of thugs, and he happened to be the biggest thug of them all. At least the likes of Souness and Keane could actually play a bit, but I'm sorry, when it comes to Jones, I can't find any redeeming qualities. Incidentally, even his acting career mirrored his footballing one. All his roles were of the stereotypical thug. He has tried to sort of rewrite history and claim that he could actually play a bit. He could barely get a cap for Wales and back then they were a step below a sunday pub team in terms of talent and professionalism. Garbage footballer he was. Technical ability to rival a league 1 player maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, sheepyvillian said: TRO, Jones was an awful footballer who played in a team of thugs, and he happened to be the biggest thug of them all. At least the likes of Souness and Keane could actually play a bit, but I'm sorry, when it comes to Jones, I can't find any redeeming qualities. Incidentally, even his acting career mirrored his footballing one. All his roles were of the stereotypical thug. Haha.....just making a point sheepy. yes he was a thug, but he had some qualities, like a determination to win at all costs and a physicality that makes a difference to winning as opposed to losing.....and all those old footballers was glad to see him on their side. He wouldn't get away with it now, but as you mention a few others who did similar, but could play.....Ron Harris, Tommy smith and Norman hunter, were others....Johhny giles and Billy Bremner, took no prisoners. Steve McMahon wasn't too far behind and Eamon Deacy was'nt famous for his reverse passes or jinky runs either. You have to have steel in you team sheepy....its one of our undoings......sure the tackles and physical encounters have to be more subtle, but its still there in football today. why is it, we think we can do without it, when every other enterprising team, has it? Edited May 20, 2020 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, rodders0223 said: He has tried to sort of rewrite history and claim that he could actually play a bit. He could barely get a cap for Wales and back then they were a step below a sunday pub team in terms of talent and professionalism. Garbage footballer he was. Technical ability to rival a league 1 player maybe. Maybe so......but the pendulum has swung the other way with us. We are obssessed with technical ability, to the point of ignoring the steel element.....its a bit of the other we need....we need players who can stay in a game, not just have pretty moments. We have players with technical ability, its some of the stuff Vinny was famous for, we are short of. Edited May 20, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, TRO said: Haha.....just making a point sheepy. yes he was a thug, but he had some qualities, like a determination to win at all costs and a physicality that makes a difference to winning as opposed to losing.....and all those old footballers was glad to see him on their side. He wouldn't get away with it now, but as you mention a few others who did similar, but could play.....Ron Harris, Tommy smith and Norman hunter, were others....Johhny giles and Billy Bremner, took no prisoners. Steve McMahon wasn't too far behind and Eamon Deacy was'nt famous for his reverse passes or jinky runs either. You have to have steel in you team sheepy....its one of our undoings......sure the tackles and physical encounters have to be more subtle, but its still there in football today. why is it, we think we can do without it, when every other enterprising team, has it? I fully understand, and what's more, agree with your point, but to say we need a player like Vinny Jones, players of his ilk wouldn't survive in today's game and rightly so. A Gareth Barry type wouldn't go amiss, I don't recall him ever not wanting to get his shorts dirty, as classy as he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, sheepyvillian said: I fully understand, and what's more, agree with your point, but to say we need a player like Vinny Jones, players of his ilk wouldn't survive in today's game and rightly so. A Gareth Barry type wouldn't go amiss, I don't recall him ever not wanting to get his shorts dirty, as classy as he was. I didn't say we need a player like Vinny Jones.....I was referring to having steel in the team and I was highlighting how the old england footballers were pleased, to see him arrive.....sure its a show, but the point was made, from what was good footballers in their day. Vinny was a thug, but he also had a very intimidating presence, which is good to have in the armoury.....we could do with a bit of that in the side, instead of us being treated like push overs. A Gareth Barry would be ideal as he had a bit about him, in the middle. I am totally bewildered how we are functioning, with little focus on it. Edited May 20, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, TRO said: I didn't say we need a player like Vinny Jones.....I was referring to having steel in the team and I was highlighting how the old england footballers were pleased, to see him arrive.....sure its a show, but the point was made, from what was good footballers in their day. Vinny was a thug, but he also had a very intimidating presence, which is good to have in the armoury.....we could do with a bit of that in the side, instead of us being treated like push overs. A Gareth Barry would be ideal as he had a bit about him, in the middle. I am totally bewildered how we are functioning, with little focus on it. This point has been made, with respect, over and over again. We either improve from here on in, or we don't . If we can avoid the drop, them maybe we can learn from this season's many mistakes. My fingers are firmly crossed that we do . The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, sheepyvillian said: This point has been made, with respect, over and over again. We either improve from here on in, or we don't . If we can avoid the drop, them maybe we can learn from this season's many mistakes. My fingers are firmly crossed that we do . The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. The point has been made....by only a few on here, considering your implying its obvious. The focus on it has been posted by very few considering how many write on here. you are right, we either improve or we don't and the consequences are clear, but what an indictment on our future if we fail, by getting something so obviously wrong. but why are we still in the same situation.?....it should have been dealt with in the summer, much better than it was or in January. You seem to be implying we can see it, but the manager/ club can't? I just get frustrated, plodding on regardless, when there is a possible fix. Edited May 21, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, TRO said: you are right, we either improve or we don't and the consequences are clear, but what an indictment on our future if we fail, by getting something so obviously wrong. It won't be the first time and probably not the last. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said: It won't be the first time and probably not the last. Very philosophical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, TRO said: Very philosophical. My point was, everything looks obviously wrong with the benefit of hindsight. The facts are that at the beginning of the season we took a gamble, it still remains to be seen if that gamble has paid off or not. If we avoid the drop, then happy days, if not, then we can all have a moan in the , " I Told You SO ", thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I think konsa and engels would be great at championship level if we go down Cant see mings sticking around. Hause is shit so id get rid of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwdriver Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Konsa's reaction to his goal being poached by mings tells me all I need to know about this dud. The guy was devastated. We'd thrown the kitchen sink at relegation rivals and finally penetrated in the last minute it don't matter who scored everyone should have been euphoric. There's always one counting the small change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, screwdriver said: Konsa's reaction to his goal being poached by mings tells me all I need to know about this dud. The guy was devastated. We'd thrown the kitchen sink at relegation rivals and finally penetrated in the last minute it don't matter who scored everyone should have been euphoric. There's always one counting the small change Was going to say something then saw the poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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