Summer Transfer Window 2019 (closed)

[DCJonah]

15 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Fair enough. 

I think that's a crap analogy because that's a much more ridiculous scenario than a guy thinking making 12 signings is risky.

But each to their own.

I'm not defending genie's opinion because I don't agree with it. I just don't understand why some people are so baffled by it.

FWIW the only two other villa fans in my office share Genie's view so he certainly isn't alone.

You're right it was an extreme comparison. I still think the idea of not doing what we've done is madness

What doesn't help is that Genie seems unable to state who he would have kept and who he wouldn't have signed 

Just that we shouldn't have signed so many players. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by DCJonah

[Mark Albrighton]

That’s fine @Genie, I get what you’re saying.

I appreciate your point is more the sheer size of the squad overhaul, not any individual signing in particular. But as others have intimidated, you must have an idea which players we should have kept and which signings we maybe didn’t need to make.

[Genie]

1 minute ago, TheStagMan said:

Thats a more reasoned approach.

Now, who would you have retained from those we have let go (by choice)? Obviously we could not get Tuanzebe or Abraham back, and let's assume that Hause, Mings and El Ghazi are a given.

Who would you have retained? And then, who are the experienced premier league players that we should have bought instead.

I'm not an agent or a scout so I don't know who is available. I am sure there are plenty of good premier league players within our budget we could have attracted.

In terms of who we released, I'd have given 1 year deals to Albert, Hutton and Whelan. They would be used as backup. 

-> I'm now waiting to hear how Whelan is 126 years old and Hutton can't walk without a frame since the final...

[DCJonah]

Just now, Genie said:

I'm not an agent or a scout so I don't know who is available. I am sure there are plenty of good premier league players within our budget we could have attracted.

In terms of who we released, I'd have given 1 year deals to Albert, Hutton and Whelan. They would be used as backup. 

-> I'm now waiting to hear how Whelan is 126 years old and Hutton can't walk without a frame since the final...

We have guilbert, elmo and bree. Is hutton needed as back up? 

So you wouldn't have signed nakamaba or luiz to give Whelan a contract extension? Who would your starting dm have been?

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

I'm not an agent or a scout so I don't know who is available. I am sure there are plenty of good premier league players within our budget we could have attracted.

In terms of who we released, I'd have given 1 year deals to Albert, Hutton and Whelan. They would be used as backup. 

-> I'm now waiting to hear how Whelan is 126 years old and Hutton can't walk without a frame since the final...

So if we'd kept those 3 players and only signed a few premier league players we'd be short in certain areas. 

Seems risky to me. 

[dukes]

48 minutes ago, Genie said:

I'm not sure if this could be any more off topic and irrelevant if you tried. He left by mutual consent for a non football related incident (as you know).

Hi Sam, nice to see you here 

[Genie]

Just now, DCJonah said:

We have guilbert, elmo and bree. Is hutton needed as back up? 

So you wouldn't have signed nakamaba or luiz to give Whelan a contract extension? Who would your starting dm have been?

I'm afraid I don't have time to go into every single position on the pitch and the merits of who we bought versus who we released. That's not the point I was making. 

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

I'm afraid I don't have time to go into every single position on the pitch and the merits of who we bought versus who we released. That's not the point I was making. 

Haha exactly. Much easier to criticise without giving much thought about it. 

Just like Big Sam and a few others in the media. 

[Tomaszk]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

I'm not an agent or a scout so I don't know who is available. I am sure there are plenty of good premier league players within our budget we could have attracted.

In terms of who we released, I'd have given 1 year deals to Albert, Hutton and Whelan. They would be used as backup. 

-> I'm now waiting to hear how Whelan is 126 years old and Hutton can't walk without a frame since the final...

So it comes down to you thinking in that in that scenario we would have enough quality cover with last season's starters I suppose.

I disagree sir. Disagree hugely.

Signing 12 players is a risk. Signing no one like Norwich is a risk. Signing a couple of players and trusting the promotion team that got you up like Sheff U is a risk.

The biggest risk for us would have been to rely on those who last season were clearly not good enough even for the Championship top half.

We had a solid mix of gold and guff in our side. The guff has all gone (apart from Neil Taylor). We may have replaced it with more guff, foreign guff. But at least it's not stale old guff we knew wasn't good enough.

We've tried.

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

I'm not an agent or a scout so I don't know who is available. I am sure there are plenty of good premier league players within our budget we could have attracted.

In terms of who we released, I'd have given 1 year deals to Albert, Hutton and Whelan. They would be used as backup. 

-> I'm now waiting to hear how Whelan is 126 years old and Hutton can't walk without a frame since the final...

whelan and hutton both high earners on their previous contracts, hutton and albert were struggling at times in our championship team, out of the 3 only adomah has signed for a new club (a championship club)

also think that smith is better placed to know the impact they had on the changing room, if he wanted to keep them around he could and would have done, hutton and Whelan maybe as coaches like we did with terry

personally I think not knowing if a new player is good enough is better than knowing an old player isn't good enough

[TheStagMan]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

I'm not an agent or a scout so I don't know who is available. I am sure there are plenty of good premier league players within our budget we could have attracted.

In terms of who we released, I'd have given 1 year deals to Albert, Hutton and Whelan. They would be used as backup. 

-> I'm now waiting to hear how Whelan is 126 years old and Hutton can't walk without a frame since the final...

Thank you. I am not going to criticise your choices there as you have put your money where your mouth is. My opinion is that none of those are good enough for the prem. Hutton has been a great servant for the club and i thank him for his efforts. Adomah is the only one I would have a slight thought of keeping and Wheelan I wish all the best to, but I just cant see him cutting it in the prem any more. Time will obviously tell if they get snapped up towards the end of the window, and if so, how they get on this season. As ex Villans who played their part I will be keeping an eye on their progress whilst wishing them every success (obviously except against us).

Now, I would like you to consider something. Is it not feasible that the plan is to fill the gaps in the first team immediately, and then bring in the squad players over the course of a few months? Effectively doing what you are suggesting but not limiting ourselves to January to make those changes?

Edited August 2, 2019 by TheStagMan

[HalfTimePost]

Webster to Brighton

Tuanzebe to Newcastle.

Those do make me think that unless Chester is totally ruined that one ofthose would have been better investments that Engels and Konsa for £21m. But that does depend on Chester being able to play if needed, 4 CBs is enough and I know the quality of those two players better than the two we've bought TBF so maybe I'll change my mind. 

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

whelan and hutton both high earners on their previous contracts, hutton and albert were struggling at times in our championship team, out of the 3 only adomah has signed for a new club (a championship club)

also think that smith is better placed to know the impact they had on the changing room, if he wanted to keep them around he could and would have done, hutton and Whelan maybe as coaches like we did with terry

personally I think not knowing if a new player is good enough is better than knowing an old player isn't good enough

Yep. 

I've haven't seen them play much but i'm confident that trezeguet is better than adomah and luiz and nakamaba are better than whelan. 

[dukes]

According to Transfermarkt, between 2011 and 2014 Sam Allardyce signed 24 players for West Ham for a total of £84M so it think it proves what a mute and hypocritical point he made.

 

BiG fat Sam wheeler dealing

[omariqy]

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

I'm afraid I don't have time to go into every single position on the pitch and the merits of who we bought versus who we released. That's not the point I was making. 

I'll do it for you mate.

GK - Steer, Kalinic, Nyland

RB - Guilbert, Elmo, Bree

CB - Chester, Mings, Hause, Dunk

LB - Hutton, Taylor

RM - Adomah

LM - Green, El Ghazi

CM - Whelan, Grealish, McGinn, Lansbury, Hourihane

ST - Rondon, Kodjia, Davis, Hogan

You said 4 to 5 players - so Mings, El Ghazi and Hause take up 3 of that. 2 other players with PL experience? Well you need a centre back because Chester is not going to play regularly enough. So let's say Dunk for £35m has an experienced very good CB. You need a striker so let's say Rondon for £25m. That's your lot. Sorry but that squad to me is a much bigger risk. Especially in midfield where one injury means we have to face the prospect of Lansbury or Whelan playing a run of games. Likewise up front, the wings, centre back and full back. Basically its a no.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, omariqy said:

I'll do it for you mate.

GK - Steer, Kalinic, Nyland

RB - Guilbert, Elmo, Bree

CB - Chester, Mings, Hause, Dunk

LB - Hutton, Taylor

RM - Adomah

LM - Green, El Ghazi

CM - Whelan, Grealish, McGinn, Lansbury, Hourihane

ST - Rondon, Kodjia, Davis, Hogan

You said 4 to 5 players - so Mings, El Ghazi and Hause take up 3 of that. 2 other players with PL experience? Well you need a centre back because Chester is not going to play regularly enough. So let's say Dunk for £35m has an experienced very good CB. You need a striker so let's say Rondon for £25m. That's your lot. Sorry but that squad to me is a much bigger risk. Especially in midfield where one injury means we have to face the prospect of Lansbury or Whelan playing a run of games. Likewise up front, the wings, centre back and full back. Basically its a no.

Exactly. 

Give it a bit of realistic thought and it's quite obvious we needed to do what we've done. 

 

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, dukes said:

According to Transfermarkt, between 2011 and 2014 Sam Allardyce signed 24 players for West Ham for a total of £84M so it think it proves what a mute and hypocritical point he made.

 

BiG fat Sam wheeler dealing

That link covers 4 years (and 1 month). 24 players, or 6 per year, 3 per window on average...

[sne]

Of course signing this many players is risky and brings difficulties.

It's just that the other alternative wasn't an alternative.

Bunn, Hutton, Jedi, Whelan, Adomah were past it last season in the Championship, one season later in the PL it would have be cruel on them and us.

And it's not like they were cheap players on low contracts. Even if they'd agreed to new lower contracts they likely wouldn't have been cheap.

We didn't have any options but to sign loads of players, I don't see why this is even discussed.

[HalfTimePost]

27 minutes ago, Genie said:

I'm afraid I don't have time to go into every single position on the pitch and the merits of who we bought versus who we released. That's not the point I was making. 

I do.

Heaton > Nyland/Kalinic (from what we've seen), Jed was 4th choice LY. Needed a #1.

Guilbert > Hutton, from early signs anyway. Cafu couldn't do another ssn in the Champ let alone Prem.

Tuanzebe > Engels. Tough to say as not seen him so maybe harsh, but I'd prefer Axel. Double the price though.

Konsa > Richards/Elphick.

Targett > Taylor. Not released or sold but definite upgrade if a tad slow.

Nakamba > Whelan. I'd have kept Whelan but he couldn't play 90 mins in the Prem and DM will be crucial to us this year.

Luiz > Jedinak. Kid looks class, same issues for Jedinak as Whelan.

Jota > Adomah. Shame to see him go but good call and Jota looks immense so far in pre-ssn

Trezeguet > Green. Hopefully he learns a lot on loan.

Tammy > Wesley. But this is more because of the unknown and Goals Tammy brought. He wouldn't have been good enough alone to keep us up, a change in style up top was needed. Hopefully Wes can do it but remains to be seen.

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by HalfTimePost

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, HalfTimePost said:

I do.

Heaton > Nyland/Kalinic (from what we've seen), Jed was 4th choice LY. Needed a #1.

Guilbert > Hutton, from early signs anyway. Cafu couldn't do another ssn in the Champ let alone Prem.

Tuanzebe > Engels. Tough to say as not seen him so maybe harsh, but I'd prefer Axel.

Konsa > Richards/Elphick.

Targett > Taylor. Not released or sold but definite upgrade if a tad slow.

Nakamba > Whelan. I'd have kept Whelan but he couldn't play 90 mins in the Prem and DM will be crucial to us this year.

Luiz > Jedinak. Kid looks class, same issues for Jedinak as Whelan.

Jota > Adomah. Shame to see him go but good call and Jota looks immense so far in pre-ssn

Trezeguet > Green. Hopefully he learns a lot on loan.

Tammy > Wesley. But this is more because of the unknown and Goals Tammy brought. He wouldn't have been good enough alone to keep us up, a change in style up top was needed. Hopefully Wes can do it but remains to be seen.

 

Axel and Tammy were not options.