Summer Transfer Window 2019 (closed)

[useless]

I don't actually think Tuanzebe will be returning to us any now anyway, whether we like it or not.

[MaVilla]

1 minute ago, useless said:

No I don't want us to continue to bring in loan players, unless we have option to buy. But I'd make an exception for Tuanzebe, because of the fact that he's already been at the club for two seasons, meaning if he comes back we will have had him for three seasons, which is pretty much like a permanent signing anyway. Sometimes in the jungle you can't see the forest for the trees.

Personally I wouldn't have him back on a loan unless it's loan to buy.

He was good in the championship, but that doesn't mean we should be silly about it.

Edited July 5, 2019 by MaVilla

[bannedfromHandV]

53 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

I completely understand this opinion, but I still just don't want us to further develop other clubs' players. Even if it's a club that's not direct competition for our mid-table/avoid relegation aim.

If Axel was completely faultless, then maybe I'd be with you, but I still think has has some weaknesses (that most young players will have), and for this reason, I'd rather we utilised our scouting system to bring in an alternative option. Maybe it's more of a gamble, but Axel himself would be a gamble in the Prem.

If he was faultless we wouldn't even have a sniff of signing him.

[Teale's 'tache]

Just now, useless said:

@Teale's 'tache

We've had financial profit from Tuanzebe because he played a massive part in us reaching the Premier league. And if he comes back on loan, that will be three seasons he's spent at the club, at very little cost, a lot of permanent signings don't stay at a club for that long, hardly a poor transfer strategy, for someone who's been one of the club's best players over the last two seasons, and without whom we might not have been promoted.

You can't put the financial profit of promotion to Tuanzebe, he made a contributed sure, but we can only speculate if other players would of played better or worse than him, it's not unlikely that we could still of been promoted without him. Also, in the general conversation about loans, not every loan ends in promotion and big money coming in, more often than not it doesn't.

Is it better to pay for a player for 3 years and return him to his club a better asset than they had originally at no profit to ourselves?

Or...

Is it better to pay for a player for 3 years and then sell him for a profit allowing you to buy more players and continue the cycle?

The only way the loan system without an option to buy will work for us now is if it allows us to obtain a player of quality that we wouldn't otherwise be able to source ourselves that would significantly improve the team allowing us to make a large profit i.e. like promotion or survival.

I'm not against loaning Tuanzebe if he is better than what we can attract and can help us to stay up, but ideally it would be better to buy our own player of similar quality who also helps us to stay up and then we have a saleable asset. Whether we can attract an alternative player of similar quality ourselves is really the debate we should be having.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

20 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

we won 3 games that season, i assume you mean the away game where we won 1-0?

that lineup looks like it was 4-3-3

Guzan, Amavi, Clark, Richards, Bacuna, Westwood, Gueye, Veretout, Sinclair, Gabby, Ayew.

 

Amavi got injured didnt he?, and Veretout didnt play so much due to being frozen out.

Still.......that team is still crap (Amavi/Gueue/Veretout aside).

I know Veretout has turned out good but he was so off the pace it was a joke. You can’t blame the manager for a player not being fit enough.

[useless]

Again, I think for the most part we should now avoid loans, unless we instert a buy-out clause into the deal. I just make an excpetion with Tuanzebe. And I think he made a massive contribution towards promotion, and I don't think it's unreasonable to think that without him we wouldn't have gone up last season, you only have to look at our form without him in the side to see how important he was. As far as this one players is concerned we really haven't missed out financially with him, we've in fact gained in that sense, and also on the pitch.

[cyrusr]

21 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

we won 3 games that season, i assume you mean the away game where we won 1-0?

that lineup looks like it was 4-3-3

Guzan, Amavi, Clark, Richards, Bacuna, Westwood, Gueye, Veretout, Sinclair, Gabby, Ayew.

 

Amavi got injured didnt he?, and Veretout didnt play so much due to being frozen out.

Still.......that team is still crap (Amavi/Gueue/Veretout aside).

Off topic, but the fact that the 3 players you have highlighted that would possibly make this team were all from the French league and that side of the transfer dealing. Reinforces the argument as to what was the problem that season... 

Anyway, back on topic, any noises of signings? Any random ITK knowledge? Anything utterly made up? Seems particularly quiet... 

[Teale's 'tache]

24 minutes ago, useless said:

Again, I think for the most part we should now avoid loans, unless we instert a buy-out clause into the deal. I just make an excpetion with Tuanzebe. And I think he made a massive contribution towards promotion, and I don't think it's unreasonable to think that without him we wouldn't have gone up last season, you only have to look at our form without him in the side to see how important he was. As far as this one players is concerned we really haven't missed out financially with him, we've in fact gained in that sense, and also on the pitch.

I'd suggest you look at the stats with/without him in the team, they are very similar.

With:

W: 10

L: 5

D:10

Without:

W:10

L:5

D:6

I like Tuanzebe, he did contribute and I hoped we'd get him on a permanent deal for continuity, but I don't think he's the only player of that quality out there, I think we can get our own Tuanzebe if we shop around, and that makes more financial sense.

[TrentVilla]

 

I'm normally the one saying be calm but have to admit I'm starting to get a little worried.

We've done decent business at some good prices so far but we've still got a huge amount to do.

I think absolute maximum we've got left to spend is about £70m without player sales and that isn't going to go far when the starting price for everyone seems to be £20m these days.

I figure we still need GK, CB x 2, CM, RM, FW as a minimum so if I'm close on the above figure its going to take some dealing, which is perhaps why things appear to be quite at the moment. Although that is often when we seem to spring a signing.

It would be good to see Suso come up with a bargain or two from overseas, we need him to be earning his keep so far we've not seen much that would appear to have his influence.

[useless]

The start of the season doesn't really count, as Bruce was playing him out of position, once Smith moved him to central defence that's when it became apparent how important he was to the team, when injured from December to February we won very few games. although of course Grealish being out at the time contributed to that. I'm not saying we have to bring him back at all costs, just that if he did (I don't think he will) then it wouldn't be the worst thing. Just have to hope now that can find someone who can be just as good for us.

[Vive_La_Villa]

10 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

 

I'm normally the one saying be calm but have to admit I'm starting to get a little worried.

We've done decent business at some good prices so far but we've still got a huge amount to do.

I think absolute maximum we've got left to spend is about £70m without player sales and that isn't going to go far when the starting price for everyone seems to be £20m these days.

I figure we still need GK, CB x 2, CM, RM, FW as a minimum so if I'm close on the above figure its going to take some dealing, which is perhaps why things appear to be quite at the moment. Although that is often when we seem to spring a signing.

It would be good to see Suso come up with a bargain or two from overseas, we need him to be earning his keep so far we've not seen much that would appear to have his influence.

Me too but if we’re being honest we’re yet to really see what Suso can do. Due to the tv money I honestly think the Premier League is a lot stronger now than the year we got relegated.   We need to just be better than 3 teams but at the moment it’s with a squad that is currently weaker than the one that got promoted. 

Im all for faith in the club but how can people not be worried for next season? 

P.s. this is not a doom and gloom post, I’m delighted to be in the top flight. I’m just concerned at this moment in time.

[Vive_La_Villa]

13 minutes ago, useless said:

The start of the season doesn't really count, as Bruce was playing him out of position, once Smith moved him to central defence that's when it became apparent how important he was to the team, when injured from December to February we won very few games. although of course Grealish being out at the time contributed to that. I'm not saying we have to bring him back at all costs, just that if he did (I don't think he will) then it wouldn't be the worst thing. Just have to hope now that can find someone who can be just as good for us.

Tuazebe got back in the team because Hause got injured and then kept his place. There’s not that much different between them in my opinion.

edit: I think Hutton and Elphick getting injured were blessings in disguise as Smith doesn’t seem to be a manager that drops players that are doing well even if there is a better alternative.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[Teale's 'tache]

17 minutes ago, useless said:

The start of the season doesn't really count, as Bruce was playing him out of position, once Smith moved him to central defence that's when it became apparent how important he was to the team, when injured from December to February we won very few games. although of course Grealish being out at the time contributed to that. I'm not saying we have to bring him back at all costs, just that if he did (I don't think he will) then it wouldn't be the worst thing. Just have to hope now that can find someone who can be just as good for us.

I take your point, his stats would look a little better were it not for Bruce and our first half of the season woes.

However, I was surprised to learn he only played in 4 of the 10 game winning streak, he missed the first 4 with his injury, was on the bench for the 5th, and missed the last through suspension (I'm guessing as all it said was he wasn't in the squad).

7 out of 17 we won while he was out injured.

He contributed, but maybe not as much as some think. Stats don't account for many things though, like his partnership with Mings and which games had more/less pressure etc. I don't think there's anyone on here who wouldn't take him back if offered a reasonable fee either upfront or at the end of a loan.

Like I said I like him and I'd be much more comfortable with him and Mings as our center half pairing come the start of the season than some other guys I've never seen play.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Teale's 'tache
missed a word

[MaVilla]

Axel was really poor in the air, dont everyone lose their mind!.....im not saying he was a bad player, he was a very good player for us, fast, agile, good on the ball, but he was pretty poor in the air, and if you watch the playoff final when Mings got injured doing that goal saving tackle, back it up to when the Derby player breaks the line, Mings is shouting and pointing to Axel where to run and to follow the player and he doesnt move, its Mings who then runs him down for the challenge.

but anyway, Axel was great in the championship i agree, i wouldnt mind having him back on a permanent deal, but he did have some weaknesses.

I also think Axel wont get a sniff in the Manure team, again not because he isnt capable of developing in to a good player, but because i dont think they will be able to accommodate his current weaknesses and wait for him to develop, Mnaure need to hit the ground running, if they drop off again this season they will fall further and further in the big club stakes and Solskjaer will be in trouble, i can see Manure buying 1 or 2 CB. even if they buy one, Axel wont get the other slot imo, i could be wrong tho.

Personally, i would like Mings & Webster, or Mings and a foreign/other/classy CB, however i wouldnt be upset if we signed Mings & Axel.

Edited July 5, 2019 by MaVilla

[robitee]

I think it's going to take a lot more than £70m to get a squad together to stay up

[MaVilla]

Just now, robitee said:

I think it's going to take a lot more than £70m to get a squad together to stay up

i think he meant 70m on top of the near 50 we have already spent.

[sharkyvilla]

25 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

 

I'm normally the one saying be calm but have to admit I'm starting to get a little worried.

We've done decent business at some good prices so far but we've still got a huge amount to do.

I think absolute maximum we've got left to spend is about £70m without player sales and that isn't going to go far when the starting price for everyone seems to be £20m these days.

I figure we still need GK, CB x 2, CM, RM, FW as a minimum so if I'm close on the above figure its going to take some dealing, which is perhaps why things appear to be quite at the moment. Although that is often when we seem to spring a signing.

It would be good to see Suso come up with a bargain or two from overseas, we need him to be earning his keep so far we've not seen much that would appear to have his influence.

That's partly why I was surprised they ruled out loans.  I'd argue that a new keeper isn't a necessity as well.  I think with Suso's business it is more likely to come out of the blue like Wesley was so I'm not yet panicking that the links seem to be mainly domestic players at the moment.

[villan-scott]

I’m sure they’re working their knackers off behind the scenes and that several deals are more than likely ‘close’. We knew nothing of Jota, Targett or Wesley until they were pretty much done. 

If by this time next week we’re in the same boat I’ll start to worry, I hope we see a couple signed next week

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I know Veretout has turned out good but he was so off the pace it was a joke. You can’t blame the manager for a player not being fit enough.

Yep, so what - he went and performed well in a slow, shit league (Serie A).

I'll bet he'd struggle again if he came back to England, Villa or no Villa.

[Feidhlim]

24 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

 

I'm normally the one saying be calm but have to admit I'm starting to get a little worried.

We've done decent business at some good prices so far but we've still got a huge amount to do.

I think absolute maximum we've got left to spend is about £70m without player sales and that isn't going to go far when the starting price for everyone seems to be £20m these days.

I figure we still need GK, CB x 2, CM, RM, FW as a minimum so if I'm close on the above figure its going to take some dealing, which is perhaps why things appear to be quite at the moment. Although that is often when we seem to spring a signing.

It would be good to see Suso come up with a bargain or two from overseas, we need him to be earning his keep so far we've not seen much that would appear to have his influence.

 

There is a lack of reliable transfer news because, as we have already demonstrated, the club seem capable of withholding their plans (eg Jota). We all want signings immediately but in reality that doesn't always happen and we know the various reasons why.

Potentially we have 5 players lined up to sign next week and the press haven't gotten wind of any of it. Sure, that's unlikely...

The lack of news is frustrating and worrying people but everyone has faith the club are doing all they can to get the bodies in. It's been acknowledged by the club that players are needed.

So my point is that everyone should relax.

Judgement dates IMO:

- Players we have 1st day of training (we have done OK?)

- Players we have 1st game of season (TBC)

- Players we have when window closes (TBC)