Tyrone Mings

[Vive_La_Villa]

If a 24 year old White is 50m then a 29 year old Mings for 40m would be good business for us. But as others have mentioned we don’t need the money so probably wouldn’t make sense to sell our captain and best centre half. 

[StanBalaban]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

I know, that's why my next sentence said:
 

I made an exception for Martinez, as I think he is the only player that we cannot upgrade on.

Realistically, we are not getting Oblak to join us. BUT, it's realistic for us to have purchased a better defender to improve on Mings.

This would in effect make Mings the next Hause/Axel, a back up player. But I appreciate this is not football manager and it's not as easy as that - Mings is a senior player and if he was benched, he would probably look to move to be a key player somewhere else. 

All I'm trying to say that a discussion on upgrading our key defensive player shouldn't be ridiculed. And this goes for every player in other positions. 

You're right, that's how we upgrade the squad.

I don't think there's anything to be gained from selling half of our best CB pairing to a direct rival midway through the season (which was what some posts were suggesting in this thread).

[Mic09]

3 minutes ago, StanBalaban said:

You're right, that's how we upgrade the squad.

I don't think there's anything to be gained from selling half of our best CB pairing to a direct rival midway through the season (which was what some posts were suggesting in this thread).

Again, 100% agree. 

But, if we could bring in a £35-40m solid CB that we plan to base our defence on in the next 3 years, at the expense of letting Mings go in the next 6/12 months, that might be a move worth considering.

But like I said, it's not football manager, it's not that easy. Firstly, that's because these players don't grow on trees. But more so because they are not game pieces just being moved around. They are human beings with valid contracts and personal motivations. 

[StanBalaban]

7 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Again, 100% agree. 

But, if we could bring in a £35-40m solid CB that we plan to base our defence on in the next 3 years, at the expense of letting Mings go in the next 6/12 months, that might be a move worth considering.

But like I said, it's not football manager, it's not that easy. Firstly, that's because these players don't grow on trees. But more so because they are not game pieces just being moved around. They are human beings with valid contracts and personal motivations. 

Yeah, no qualms there. 

I just get the feeling that some would be happy to see Tyrone go just for the money. FWIW, I would be surprised if the new manager would want the same, and I also think we need to be in a much higher position in the table in order to be attract better players.

[Laughable Chimp]

24 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

If a 24 year old White is 50m then a 29 year old Mings for 40m would be good business for us. But as others have mentioned we don’t need the money so probably wouldn’t make sense to sell our captain and best centre half. 

That's just the thing, a 24 year old White is not worth 50m.

[Vive_La_Villa]

11 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

That's just the thing, a 24 year old White is not worth 50m.

I actually think he is. Top defender that will only get better. They have definitely paid over the odds for potential though. 

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

He was playing like a marauding LB/LWB last night, touch and move and all sorts of random ness.

I have suggested in the past, that I'd be open to playing him as an LB/LWB.

As much as he winds me up at times, I defo wouldn't be looking to sell him yet .

He's a part of the fabric of this team.

Then again, it's all unexpected change this season on multiple fronts it appears!

I don't think his footwork is anywhere near good enough to be a LWB to be honest.

He's good with the ball at his feet for a CB, but I don't think that translates into the kind of creative work a fullback has to do

[MrBlack]

14 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

That's just the thing, a 24 year old White is not worth 50m.

 

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I actually think he is. Top defender that will only get better. They have definitely paid over the odds for potential though. 

Whether he is or not isn't really the point. That's what the market values such a player at, so anyone objectively or subjectively better would cost at least as much 

[Vive_La_Villa]

Just now, MrBlack said:

 

Whether he is or not isn't really the point. That's what the market values such a player at, so anyone objectively or subjectively better would cost at least as much 

Not taking age in to consideration ?

[HKP90]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

I don't think his footwork is anywhere near good enough to be a LWB to be honest.

He's good with the ball at his feet for a CB, but I don't think that translates into the kind of creative work a fullback has to do

No, I think you are right in terms of wing back position. I'd definitely have him at CB. He's a unit. He probably played there against San Marino as we could afford it with their negligible attack, or to neutralise the outball to the flanks with his heading. 

[MrBlack]

3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Not taking age in to consideration ?

Was inferring that this supposed hypothetical player is the same age as White. 

 

Edit: missed original post saying 40m was good value for us for Mings... my point was more that claiming White isn't "worth" £50m is irrelevant.  That's what was paid. That sets the benchmark for a younger player around his age with his ability.

So yes, 40m may be OK for Mings in that context, but we wouldn't be getting a replacement better than White for that money.

Edited November 16, 2021 by MrBlack

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, HKP90 said:

No, I think you are right in terms of wing back position. I'd definitely have him at CB. He's a unit. He probably played there against San Marino as we could afford it with their negligible attack, or to neutralise the outball to the flanks with his heading. 

I imagine Keinan Davis could look like a competent wing back against San Marino

[HKP90]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

I imagine Keinan Davis could look like a competent wing back against San Marino

Haha, yeah. They were....let's be kind.....lacking attacking impetus. 

[Laughable Chimp]

Just now, MrBlack said:

 

Whether he is or not isn't really the point. That's what the market values such a player at, so anyone objectively or subjectively better would cost at least as much 

Not sure what you mean here, and any interpretation I can make of your sentence doesn't make sense to me. If you literally mean that any player better would cost at least as much, then there would mean there's no such thing as unearthing good players for cheap prices.

The "market" didn't value Ben White at that price, Arsenal and Brighton did. Their valuations can be wrong(as they quite often are in the transfer market) and there's no guarantee that 2 different clubs would come to the same valuation of a player of a similar ability. 

[MrBlack]

Just now, Laughable Chimp said:

Not sure what you mean here, and any interpretation I can make of your sentence doesn't make sense to me. If you literally mean that any player better would cost at least as much, then there would mean there's no such thing as unearthing good players for cheap prices.

The "market" didn't value Ben White at that price, Arsenal and Brighton did. Their valuations can be wrong(as they quite often are in the transfer market) and there's no guarantee that 2 different clubs would come to the same valuation of a player of a similar ability. 

But your expectation that we'd find an unearthed gem, that can come in and perform as well as Mings (because they'd need to if we let him go),  for less than 40m is, I feel,  quite optimistic.

There is very little chance of us doing that. We can't let him go and get one for the future, we need someone for now if we sell. And anyone that has a bit of both about them (like White) will cost a lot.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, MrBlack said:

Was inferring that this supposed hypothetical player is the same age as White. 

 

Edit: missed original post saying 40m was good value for us for Mings... my point was more that claiming White isn't "worth" £50m is irrelevant.  That's what was paid. That sets the benchmark for a younger player around his age with his ability.

So yes, 40m may be OK for Mings in that context, but we wouldn't be getting a replacement better than White for that money.

I guess it depends where you shop. Liverpool got Konete for 36m. Southampton paid about 10m for their centre half that is looking very solid now.  Leicester payed 20m for Söyüncü and up to 36m for Fofana

Of course you always have the settling in period, gamble of whether they can do it in this league etc. 

edit: excuse the font change. A bit of mobile copy and paste going on. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Vive_La_Villa

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

He was playing like a marauding LB/LWB last night, touch and move and all sorts of random ness.

I have suggested in the past, that I'd be open to playing him as an LB/LWB.

He's definitely not a wing back.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

31 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

He's definitely not a wing back.

He did start his career as a Left Back though.

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

He did start his career as a Left Back though.

Yeah I know, at PL level though...he's not got the skilset IMO.

[Tom13]

And I agree with you 95% of the time