Tyrone Mings

[Kiwivillan]

1 hour ago, Peter Griffin said:

I agree. They will sell players tactically and not willy nilly

Is Willy Nilly another academy prospect I've not heard of?

[maqroll]

Seeing as we have a specialist coach for throw ins, I'm wondering if we have a specialist for the mind. A sports psychologist. Could help Tyrone's penchant for losing his mind as he did yesterday. The errors he makes seem to come down to a lack of focus. His brain goes missing. A sports shrink could do the trick.

[IrishVilla10]

19 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Seeing as we have a specialist coach for throw ins, I'm wondering if we have a specialist for the mind. A sports psychologist. Could help Tyrone's penchant for losing his mind as he did yesterday. The errors he makes seem to come down to a lack of focus. His brain goes missing. A sports shrink could do the trick.

I’m sure he’s openly spoke about seeing a psychologist recently 

[maqroll]

4 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said:

I’m sure he’s openly spoke about seeing a psychologist recently 

A sports psychologist, or a regular one? 

[villa4europe]

6 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

The principle behind selling Mings is clearly going over your head

because that principle is a weak one

the principle of selling squad players and youngsters that wont break through because of who is ahead of them in the 1st team at peak value is a good one, the principle of doing it to your england international starting CB and captain is not

Edited September 13, 2021 by villa4europe

[Peter Griffin]

6 hours ago, maqroll said:

Seeing as we have a specialist coach for throw ins, I'm wondering if we have a specialist for the mind. A sports psychologist. Could help Tyrone's penchant for losing his mind as he did yesterday. The errors he makes seem to come down to a lack of focus. His brain goes missing. A sports shrink could do the trick.

. That could be a good idea, Wolves have just appointed the Olympic Team GB Psychologist to work as their 'Mind Coach'

[Peter Griffin]

13 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

because that principle is a weak one

the principle of selling squad players and youngsters that wont break through because of who is ahead of them in the 1st team at peak value is a good one, the principle of doing it to your england international starting CB and captain is not

There is nothing wrong with having a different opinion but that is not the principle I am endorsing and nor what I said

[peterw]

Nothing wrong with an opinion but one that seems borne out of knee-jerk reactionism needs to be called out. Do you similarly want Tuanzebe out for the first goal error, and Konsa/Tuanzebe for the third goal error? The 'stat' above just mentions defensive errors not that goals were conceded because of it, what were the defensive errors? If you look at Mellberg's time at Villa he was also massively error-strewn but his good outweighed his bad to the point that people rarely mention them. Same with Laursen, his distribution and lunging in was quite woeful at times, but again that's forgotten about. 

 

Mings has been largely excellent for us bar some mistakes. He sounds like just about every defender out there. Maguire had been pulled from pillar to post last season (around this time) for his errors and yet he is still captaining club and country. Does he need to be sold? Not yet, in my opinion, and unless you have a track record of arguing why he should be sold then your opinion is based on short-term results and emotion. Which is the worst possible way of trying to argue one way or the other.

Edited September 13, 2021 by peterw

[villa4europe]

10 minutes ago, peterw said:

Do you similarly want Tuanzebe out for the first goal error

that there is my biggest bug bearer about this kind of thing

IMO tuanzebe didnt make an error...he got beat by great movement from a better player who cost the european champions £100m and a world class pass from their £50m ex real madrid central midfielder who's won the CL 4 times...

sometimes its not us 

not every goal is because of a villa mistake 

[Peter Griffin]

25 minutes ago, peterw said:

Nothing wrong with an opinion but one that seems borne out of knee-jerk reactionism needs to be called out

What suggests it is knee-jerk? I was saying this before the Chelsea game too.

25 minutes ago, peterw said:

Do you similarly want Tuanzebe out for the first goal error, and Konsa/Tuanzebe for the third goal error?

I am not sure what you mean by 'out', is it out of the team or out of the club? I have said I would like Mings to be sold next summer. This is partly due to the fact that after next summer he will go down in value rapidly and next summer & could make a significant accounting profit on him and I don't believe he is good enough to get us to top 4/6. Tuanzebe is on loan so he will be returning to Man U next summer, there is no option to sell him. I have already explained my view on Konsa i.e. he is an excellent player and will increase in value and can help us get to top 4/6, therefore we should not sell him. 

EDIT:

Regarding 'out' of the team. I do not want Mings dropped from the team. He is the best player for that position currently at the club and he also organises our defence. We need him in the team to try and finish top half this season. I rate Mings, just not enough to get us to the next level and I think we should try and cash in on him and get a better replacement

Edited September 13, 2021 by Peter Griffin

[bobzy]

10 hours ago, andym said:

What are fbref (who villa analytics are basing those tweets from) actually counting as errors?

From the Premier League website, Mings made 1 error leading to a goal against season (assume Fulham backpass) Konsa also had 1 (along with most other defenders in the league), season before he made 2 (Konsa again 1).

Pretty sure they dont include penalties conceded as errors either, as i couldnt see Kyle Walker on the list, and he gave away 3 last season at least 2 of which were scored.

Mings conceded 0 pens last season, with 1 season before (Konsa also 1 that season).

On the first bit, they’re counting errors as “a mistake which leads to opponent having a shot”. Mings had 5 errors last season, 2 more than any other outfield player and second in the league behind Alisson (7).

On “errors leading to a goal”, I wonder what they class as an error in this instance. As I mentioned previously, he had the backpass vs Fulham (goal) and also missed header vs Man Utd (goal). I’m guessing only the backpass counts on whatever you’ve looked at - so it’s actually missing other mistakes he’s made. 

[villa4europe]

27 minutes ago, bobzy said:

On the first bit, they’re counting errors as “a mistake which leads to opponent having a shot”. Mings had 5 errors last season, 2 more than any other outfield player and second in the league behind Alisson (7).

On “errors leading to a goal”, I wonder what they class as an error in this instance. As I mentioned previously, he had the backpass vs Fulham (goal) and also missed header vs Man Utd (goal). I’m guessing only the backpass counts on whatever you’ve looked at - so it’s actually missing other mistakes he’s made. 

Because the missed header wasn't a mistake, it was a missed header, it wasn't even that bad, that's a prime example of how much bollocks this all is 

Where do you stop? Man utd at home their 2nd goal he gets turned by Greenwood, it's way too easy... But it's not a mistake 

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Because the missed header wasn't a mistake, it was a missed header, it wasn't even that bad, that's a prime example of how much bollocks this all is 

Where do you stop? Man utd at home their 2nd goal he gets turned by Greenwood, it's way too easy... But it's not a mistake 

I think the missed header is a mistake, personally.  He should make it.

The Greenwood incident isn't - he gets done too easily, but it's good play by Greenwood.

[TRO]

On 11/09/2021 at 19:27, Digavilla said:

Mings is an old fashion defender, never comfortable on the ball.. can’t really play out from the back type 

so my question is? is he exposed too much....His lack of ball control, gets him in hot water....then he makes under cooked passes like he did. someone with good ball control and his frame, would have resisted the challenge from Kovacic...He panicked.

[villa4europe]

4 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I think the missed header is a mistake, personally.  He should make it.

The Greenwood incident isn't - he gets done too easily, but it's good play by Greenwood.

Martial & Fernandes put Reds level with Liverpool! | Manchester United 2-1 Aston Villa | Highlights - YouTube

30 seconds in, i dont think thats an easy header or a mistake, its a bad height for him and he's not set

that goal is on mcinn and especially el ghazi who stands and watches wan bissaka, the thing that mings does wrong there is that due to what is behind him he can go over and close WB but he doesnt, kind of the opposite of what he did for chelsea's 3rd goal saturday 

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

so my question is? is he exposed too much

I think that is the unfortunate situation for all defenders outside the top teams. We obviously have more defending to do than the top 4 and as such our defenders need to perform better and for longer periods than their top 4 counterparts. 

[Steero113]

8 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Is Willy Nilly another academy prospect I've not heard of?

Willy Boly's albino cousin I think. 

[villa4europe]

like i said where do you stop? where's everyone complaining about konsa's "mistake" for the chelsea goal here? completely switched off, doesnt have a clue whats behind him

you can do it all day long for every player in the team if you wanted to

 

[lexicon]

4 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

like i said where do you stop? where's everyone complaining about konsa's "mistake" for the chelsea goal here? completely switched off, doesnt have a clue whats behind him

you can do it all day long for every player in the team if you wanted to

Exactly.

For some reason, Mings just seems to get it in the neck a lot more and it really isn't fair tbh. Fans have their favourites, though, I suppose.

[TRO]

48 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

that there is my biggest bug bearer about this kind of thing

IMO tuanzebe didnt make an error...he got beat by great movement from a better player who cost the european champions £100m and a world class pass from their £50m ex real madrid central midfielder who's won the CL 4 times...

sometimes its not us 

not every goal is because of a villa mistake 

I thought Tuanzebe could have done better for both Lukaku goals......but I also think that our CB's are exposed too easily, too.

In a game where our overall play was very good, its hard to take.....but when you watch carefully the organisation and intensity of their defence, coupled with clinical finishing, its understandable, they got the result, they wanted.

Romelu Lukaku is the real deal, now, no doubt about that, he is up there with the big boys....but our boys did well too, but Chelsea's defending was world class.

That first half could have so easily been us going in, in front.

Ollie Watkins in terms of work rate, trumped Lukaku, its just his quality, plus iffy defending got him the goals.

We have to find a way of defending better than that, we can't keep shipping avoidable goals.