Tyrone Mings

[Sulberto21]

That Van Dijk one against Jota is soooo funny. 

[TRO]

James Rushton made a good point on claret & blue podcast.

he said " often Mings covers his mates mistakes, but rarely does anyone cover his"....its a team game, lets remind ourselves.

Edited September 14, 2021 by TRO

[peterw]

19 hours ago, villa4europe said:

that there is my biggest bug bearer about this kind of thing

IMO tuanzebe didnt make an error...he got beat by great movement from a better player who cost the european champions £100m and a world class pass from their £50m ex real madrid central midfielder who's won the CL 4 times...

sometimes its not us 

not every goal is because of a villa mistake 

Then my friend you are not a reader of the game if you play football. The ball was played in between Luiz (I think) and Tuanzebe. Nothing wrong at that point as the defender then has time to react and the telling point is how the defender reacts to potential dangers. As it went in front of him Tuanzebe has then two options, to go towards the ball (which is a 50/50 decision as he didn't know exactly where Lukaku was) or to carry on running forward and putting himself between the ball and the goal hoping that it allows cover to then come across and snuff out the danger, whilst slowing Lukaku down. He did neither - as the ball went past him he stuttered and looked towards Steer despite it being too far out for the goalkeeper to commit. At that point a potentially dangerous situation became a very dangerous one. Because of that stutter it gave Lukaku the run on him and he was able to use Tuanzebe's sprint momentum against him, cut inside and he took the goal well.

Tuanzebe 100% made an error, and because of it he allowed a £100m player take full advantage of it.

 

[ThunderPower_14]

We had an incredible defence last season despite an average midfield not providing a great amount of protection.

Mings makes mistakes, but literally every defender does. It's how most goals are scored. 

It's like the wider football community decided Mings was a clumsy mistake merchant when he clattered into that player for England in the Euros warmups, but that dissipated when he was rock solid there, and now Villa fans have bizarrely caught onto this idea and run with it.

He's a terrific defender and arguing that Konsa is better or worse is a pointless exercise when we play 2 of them anyway. Mings is absolutely part of our best CB pairing, and he's been a terrific defender for us.

[Danny_Villaman84]

4 hours ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

We had an incredible defence last season despite an average midfield not providing a great amount of protection.

Mings makes mistakes, but literally every defender does. It's how most goals are scored. 

It's like the wider football community decided Mings was a clumsy mistake merchant when he clattered into that player for England in the Euros warmups, but that dissipated when he was rock solid there, and now Villa fans have bizarrely caught onto this idea and run with it.

He's a terrific defender and arguing that Konsa is better or worse is a pointless exercise when we play 2 of them anyway. Mings is absolutely part of our best CB pairing, and he's been a terrific defender for us.

Ming's hater .... i'm Agreed with ^ ^ 

Be fair on Ming he is truly good centre half and he is way better that Elphick + Chester and before this, and before this. if he didn't come help us, we will still in likely be in championship.

also he is did help us stay premiership for 2 seasons, he is brilliant pair with Konsa. 

Even I know, Ming did mistake and occasion silly mistake as he is over confidence some time which he need stop do it but he is brilliant leadership and attuite, good player if he keep his head straight and stay calm..  - as same all other defender even Van Dijk did same mistake of his occasion.

Personally i'm most blame direct Steers for not right place to help cycle passing should be closer to Ming for a support and offer space to receive passing and ping to other player to help to pass around like Martinez often.

Be fair on Steers it is actually partial Ming fault as he should know Steer don't used this or don't have this skills so he, Ming - should've hoof to space if there not space to passing around play safety.

Steers position too deep for receive pass and limit area to kick, if he move closer to Ming so Ming can move far wide to receive and better spot to possession or running to side to attack. or Ping to other side, or long ball if pressure. But Steers not his fault as he is not play first team regular and didn't used this way (which he should've know and prepared as it is foundation our style football and tactical) 

Smith should've go 2nd sweeper goalkeeper for cover and good technician (first touch and passing), know positional to help defend to cycle passing.

[Laughable Chimp]

6 hours ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

We had an incredible defence last season despite an average midfield not providing a great amount of protection.

Mings makes mistakes, but literally every defender does. It's how most goals are scored. 

It's like the wider football community decided Mings was a clumsy mistake merchant when he clattered into that player for England in the Euros warmups, but that dissipated when he was rock solid there, and now Villa fans have bizarrely caught onto this idea and run with it.

He's a terrific defender and arguing that Konsa is better or worse is a pointless exercise when we play 2 of them anyway. Mings is absolutely part of our best CB pairing, and he's been a terrific defender for us.

This is a point often brought up and I believed it without really checking for a while too. But we actually only had the joint 7th best defense(in terms of goals conceded) in the league last season. Still pretty good but the way people talk about our defense as if we were one of the top defences in the league when we were closer to the average. 

Then consider the fact that we had a world-class keeper in Martinez saving shots that would otherwise have been let in, our defense last season was very much midtable.

Edit: I just realized you could use post-shot xG to actually quantify Martinez's shot-stopping ability and hence get a number for how many goals we would've conceded if we had an average goalkeeper instead. According to fbref, Martinez was worth 7.4 less goals conceded purely on his shot-stopping ability over an average goalkeeper. Adding 7.4 more goals conceded would bring us from the joint 7th best defence to the 13th best defence in terms of goals conceded.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Laughable Chimp

[villa4europe]

12 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

This is a point often brought up and I believed it without really checking for a while too. But we actually only had the joint 7th best defense in the league last season. Still pretty good but the way people talk about our defense as if we were one of the top defences in the league when we were closer to the average. 

Then consider the fact that we had a world-class keeper in Martinez saving shots that would otherwise have been let in, our defense last season was very much midtable.

he was 4th for shots faced

the 3 keepers below him were all relegated

[Zatman]

29 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

This is a point often brought up and I believed it without really checking for a while too. But we actually only had the joint 7th best defense(in terms of goals conceded) in the league last season. Still pretty good but the way people talk about our defense as if we were one of the top defences in the league when we were closer to the average. 

Then consider the fact that we had a world-class keeper in Martinez saving shots that would otherwise have been let in, our defense last season was very much midtable.

Martinez was 2nd on the clean sheets chart behind Ederson and the only teams that conceded less were the Sky 6 who some teams barely attack. 

We conceded 3 or more in 6 games which was 19 of the goals conceded from the 46

[Sulberto21]

35 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

This is a point often brought up and I believed it without really checking for a while too. But we actually only had the joint 7th best defense(in terms of goals conceded) in the league last season. Still pretty good but the way people talk about our defense as if we were one of the top defences in the league when we were closer to the average. 

Then consider the fact that we had a world-class keeper in Martinez saving shots that would otherwise have been let in, our defense last season was very much midtable.

I believe there's a caveat though - our form after the covid outbreak was generally poor. We let far too many shots come in. Before this we were top 3 in most defensive metrics shots faced, clean sheets (finished high up in the end) and shots attempted.

We were definitely easier to play against in the second half of the season.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

This is a point often brought up and I believed it without really checking for a while too. But we actually only had the joint 7th best defense(in terms of goals conceded) in the league last season. Still pretty good but the way people talk about our defense as if we were one of the top defences in the league when we were closer to the average. 

Then consider the fact that we had a world-class keeper in Martinez saving shots that would otherwise have been let in, our defense last season was very much midtable.

Edit: I just realized you could use post-shot xG to actually quantify Martinez's shot-stopping ability and hence get a number for how many goals we would've conceded if we had an average goalkeeper instead. According to fbref, Martinez was worth 7.4 less goals conceded purely on his shot-stopping ability over an average goalkeeper. Adding 7.4 more goals conceded would bring us from the joint 7th best defence to the 13th best defence in terms of goals conceded.

but we have to take note....teams attack and teams defend....its all 11 players, responsible for that.

individuals are just components of the team. 

I think we are often vulnerable to the long ball...where ball control plays a big part....something to work on.

Edited September 14, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

19 hours ago, Keyblade said:

It's because of the nature of the mistakes. For some reason, switching off at the backpost seems more palatable to fans than underhit backpasses or being caught in possession.

Interesting......I've thought that for some time.

particualrly against Burnley.

but you are spot on, its a breeding ground for goals, for the opposition.

Edited September 14, 2021 by TRO

[roonst83]

For me this issue is fans often try to label or pigeon hole players as one thing or an other. Mings is both an excellent leader and a player with great qualities, but he is also a player who loses focus and concentration during games, which has proved costly on a fair few occasions. 

Mistakes will always make more headlines than solid performances, particularly as a defender. But let's not pretend Mings's mistakes are something we should just accept because he also shows qualities during games. That mistake on Saturday night cha need the rhythm of the game as was a mountain for us to climb. It changed our dynamic and the game was effectively lost from there. Mings needs to cut these lapses in concentration out of his game and I hope the coaching staff are taking him to task over it. If they're not then that's a wider issue that would be concerning. 

I feel Konsa's ceiling is much higher than Mings and personally feel, similar to Rashford, Mings's positive public perception enhances the reputation of his footballing performance. 

Are we better with Mings in our team? Yes. Does he make too many costly mistakes for my liking? Also yes. Mings has never had the pressure at Villa of fighting for his place, a position he earns himself despite the mistakes over time, but with more competition for places and if we continue to recruit well he should be challenged more firmly for his position, in my opinion.

 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, roonst83 said:

For me this issue is fans often try to label or pigeon hole players as one thing or an other. Mings is both an excellent leader and a player with great qualities, but he is also a player who loses focus and concentration during games, which has proved costly on a fair few occasions. 

Mistakes will always make more headlines than solid performances, particularly as a defender. But let's not pretend Mings's mistakes are something we should just accept because he also shows qualities during games. That mistake on Saturday night cha need the rhythm of the game as was a mountain for us to climb. It changed our dynamic and the game was effectively lost from there. Mings needs to cut these lapses in concentration out of his game and I hope the coaching staff are taking him to task over it. If they're not then that's a wider issue that would be concerning. 

I feel Konsa's ceiling is much higher than Mings and personally feel, similar to Rashford, Mings's positive public perception enhances the reputation of his footballing performance. 

Are we better with Mings in our team? Yes. Does he make too many costly mistakes for my liking? Also yes. Mings has never had the pressure at Villa of fighting for his place, a position he earns himself despite the mistakes over time, but with more competition for places and if we continue to recruit well he should be challenged more firmly for his position, in my opinion.

 

I am not condoning these mistakes, but I think Ty tries to cover and get concerned for others......I think he tries to do too much mentally.

He has to play, but he has to minimise these kind of errors.

I also think Hause, doesn't do that much wrong, we should use him on occasions a bit more.

[Zatman]

9 minutes ago, roonst83 said:

For me this issue is fans often try to label or pigeon hole players as one thing or an other. Mings is both an excellent leader and a player with great qualities, but he is also a player who loses focus and concentration during games, which has proved costly on a fair few occasions. 

Mistakes will always make more headlines than solid performances, particularly as a defender. But let's not pretend Mings's mistakes are something we should just accept because he also shows qualities during games. That mistake on Saturday night cha need the rhythm of the game as was a mountain for us to climb. It changed our dynamic and the game was effectively lost from there. Mings needs to cut these lapses in concentration out of his game and I hope the coaching staff are taking him to task over it. If they're not then that's a wider issue that would be concerning. 

I feel Konsa's ceiling is much higher than Mings and personally feel, similar to Rashford, Mings's positive public perception enhances the reputation of his footballing performance. 

Are we better with Mings in our team? Yes. Does he make too many costly mistakes for my liking? Also yes. Mings has never had the pressure at Villa of fighting for his place, a position he earns himself despite the mistakes over time, but with more competition for places and if we continue to recruit well he should be challenged more firmly for his position, in my opinion.

 

I understand what you mean and I think thats a good thing though, a lot of Villa fans remember the Lescotts, Richards, Gabbys, McCormacks that made Villa a poisonous club for far too long.  

I would rather have Villa represented by a man like Mings who might make mistakes than an elite talent like Neymar or Kane who are complete pricks

[roonst83]

Just now, TRO said:

I am not condoning these mistakes, but I think Ty tries to cover and get concerned for others......I think he tries to do too much mentally.

He has to play, but he has to minimise these kind of errors.

I also think Hause, doesn't do that much wrong, we should use him on occasions a bit more.

That's definitely a good observation about Mings trying to cover others. He's has a natural leadership instincts, no doubt.

I also agree re Hause. Dient put a foot wring last season when called up and I always find he's our biggest threat from set pieces.

[roonst83]

6 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I understand what you mean and I think thats a good thing though, a lot of Villa fans remember the Lescotts, Richards, Gabbys, McCormacks that made Villa a poisonous club for far too long.  

I would rather have Villa represented by a man like Mings who might make mistakes than an elite talent like Neymar or Kane who are complete pricks

Agree 100%. I'm proud to have Mings captain. I just wish he's cut out those mistakes and fulfill, what I feel is, his greater potential. 

[Don_Simon]

13 hours ago, TRO said:

James Rushton made a good point on claret & blue podcast.

he said " often Mings covers his mates mistakes, but rarely does anyone cover his"....its a team game, lets remind ourselves.

That guy. My god.

When asked on said podcast if its an issue that Tyrone doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes, (which is true), he responded by giving some weird, meandering answer about Paul Gascoigne not connecting with the cross against Germany which means it wasn't a chance. 

There's no way he's not high during these podcasts. 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, Don_Simon said:

That guy. My god.

When asked on said podcast if its an issue that Tyrone doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes, (which is true), he responded by giving some weird, meandering answer about Paul Gascoigne not connecting with the cross against Germany which means it wasn't a chance. 

There's no way he's not high during these podcasts. 

He talks a lot of sense most of the time,(imo) sure, we will all make analogies in the heat of the moment, that could be better.

I think he was trying to explain the interpretations of metrics and they can be misinterpreted.

but its not about who said it, its more about what was said, relating to Ty.

[KentVillan]

Possession (per 90)

						Touches							Dribbles					Carries								Receiving
Player	Span	Nation	Pos	Squad	90s	Touches	Def Pen	Def 3rd	Mid 3rd	Att 3rd	Att Pen	Live	Succ	Att	Succ%	#Pl	Megs	Carries	TotDist	PrgDist	Prog	1/3	CPA	Mis	Dis	Targ	Rec	Rec%	Prog
Tyrone Mings	2020-21	eng ENG	DF	Aston Villa	35.5	56.5	10.8	34.3	23.4	2.37	1.04	55.0	0.23	0.37	61.5	0.23	0.00	30.5	201.7	95.7	1.52	0.25	0.03	0.25	0.20	34.2	32.9	96.3	0.31
Ezri Konsa	2020-21	eng ENG	DF	Aston Villa	35.5	45.2	9.32	26.5	18.0	2.14	0.87	43.9	0.17	0.28	60.0	0.17	0.00	25.2	97.5	38.9	0.62	0.08	0.00	0.14	0.14	27.4	26.1	95.4	0.17
James Tarkowski	2020-21	eng ENG	DF	Burnley	36.0	45.8	7.31	24.6	19.6	3.67	2.00	44.9	0.31	0.36	84.6	0.33	0.00	18.5	99.3	50.1	1.14	0.17	0.03	0.33	0.19	23.0	21.6	93.7	0.47

Passing (per 90)

						Total					Short			Medium			Long
Player	Span	Nation	Pos	Squad	90s	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	TotDist	PrgDist	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Ast	xA	A-xA	KP	1/3	PPA	CrsPA	Prog
Tyrone Mings	2020-21	eng ENG	DF	Aston Villa	35.5	35.5	44.6	79.6	841.2	333.1	8.11	9.13	88.9	19.9	21.6	92.1	7.24	13.0	55.6	0.06	0.02	0.04	0.20	3.38	0.17	0.06	3.04
Ezri Konsa	2020-21	eng ENG	DF	Aston Villa	35.5	30.3	35.0	86.5	684.9	168.4	7.04	8.00	88.0	17.3	18.5	93.5	5.69	7.89	72.1	0.00	0.01	-0.01	0.03	1.07	0.06	0.00	1.01
James Tarkowski	2020-21	eng ENG	DF	Burnley	36.0	23.3	32.4	72.0	576.3	213.2	6.14	7.94	77.3	10.4	12.7	81.7	6.67	11.1	59.9	0.00	0.02	-0.02	0.28	1.92	0.36	0.06	2.11

Not sure if this has pasted properly, but you can have a look for yourself here: https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&comp_type=by_type&dom_lg=1&spec_comps=big_5&player_id1=8397a50c&p1yrfrom=2020-2021&player_id2=0313a347&p2yrfrom=2020-2021&player_id3=15ea812b&p3yrfrom=2020-2021

These are last season's Possession & Passing stats for Mings, Konsa and Tarkowski.

Basically, Mings is making himself available for the ball more often than the other two players (or Smith's patterns of play involve Mings more often). Either way, that's naturally going to lead to more mistakes. But he is actually a progressive player with the ball who usually makes the right pass, as the stats show.

Mings and Konsa are both much better passers than Tarkowski, who is more of an out-and-out defender.

[AVTuco]

Has Lingard been sent packing already?