Tyrone Mings

[TRO]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

like i said where do you stop? where's everyone complaining about konsa's "mistake" for the chelsea goal here? completely switched off, doesnt have a clue whats behind him

you can do it all day long for every player in the team if you wanted to

 

Thats true....but equally, you can't keep dismissing goals as inevitable, when they are not.

it was also a mistake in midfield to allow Kovacic the freedom to weave his way through to plant a perfect pass through us to Lukakau, but that has had little consideration, to my knowledge.

finding a balance is helpful.

Edited September 13, 2021 by TRO

[bobzy]

18 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

like i said where do you stop? where's everyone complaining about konsa's "mistake" for the chelsea goal here? completely switched off, doesnt have a clue whats behind him

you can do it all day long for every player in the team if you wanted to

But that isn't a mistake, it's poor play

In the position he's in, given what's happened, Konsa can't do anything to positively make a difference.  As you rightly say, all the bad play has already happened - he's switched off his man and let him find space.  This also happens with Mings (and Targett and Cash etc) and doesn't really get picked up on that much precisely because they aren't glaring errors as such, just bad decisions.

 

I don't really know what's being suggested.  Do other players make mistakes?  Yes, yes they do.  Does Mings make more big mistakes than the other players?  Yes, yes he does.  Does this mean he's a bad player?  No, it doesn't.

[lexicon]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I thought Tuanzebe could have done better for both Lukaku goals......but I also think that our CB's are exposed too easily, too.

In a game where our overall play was very good, its hard to take.....but when you watch carefully the organisation and intensity of their defence, coupled with clinical finishing, its understandable, they got the result, they wanted.

Romelu Lukaku is the real deal, now, no doubt about that, he is up there with the big boys....but our boys did well too, but Chelsea's defending was world class.

That first half could have so easily been us going in, in front.

Ollie Watkins in terms of work rate, trumped Lukaku, its just his quality, plus iffy defending got him the goals.

We have to find a way of defending better than that, we can't keep shipping avoidable goals.

 

If Watkins or Ings had done the same to a Chelsea defender, hand on heart now, would you be praising them or thinking that what they'd done was made easy by the defender? The only person I think could have made somewhat of a difference to goals one or two (besides the error itself) would be Martinez in goal, as he might have been able to get something of the first, and he certainly wouldn't have stopped rushing Kovacic for the 2nd, which may have put him off. It's theorising, though.

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I don't really know what's being suggested.  Do other players make mistakes?  Yes, yes they do.  Does Mings make more big mistakes than the other players?  Yes, yes he does.  Does this mean he's a bad player?  No, it doesn't.

I agree with that. But I would also ask, Can we do better than Mings? and I believe the answer to that is Yes

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Peter Griffin said:

I think that is the unfortunate situation for all defenders outside the top teams. We obviously have more defending to do than the top 4 and as such our defenders need to perform better and for longer periods than their top 4 counterparts. 

Pete, I thought Chelsea's defending was sublime, their blocks alone were mind boggling......It's one of the reasons, I think they will win it(Prem).....obviously with Lukaku's finishing just about make them the close to perfect team.

Despite our heroics, I still think baring the brain farts, we played far better than anyone is giving us credit for.

I still think Emi in goal and It could have been a different match....he gives the centre backs confidence....Steer didn't do anything wrong, its just the presence of Emi.

Edited September 13, 2021 by TRO

[Peter Griffin]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

Pete, I thought Chelsea's defending was sublime, there blocks alone were mind boggling

Yeah, Chelsea look absolutely superb. TT has done an amazing job since taking over from Frank. They are rock solid at the back and showed that at Anfield last time out when they had 10 men and kept a clean sheet during that period. On top of that their midfield is brilliant and they now have Lukaku up front. I wonder if any City fans are thinking they would have been better off spending their 100m on him. It would have reduce the Chelsea threat and seriously improved City

Edited September 13, 2021 by Peter Griffin
Fixed a typo

[thunderball]

I think Mings is as good a player for a team in our position as is possible, even if we buy another CB I hope it’s to compete against Mings, we are light at the back. But I think if we are to improve, after this season i.e. next summer window, improving our defensive game must be on the agenda. 

All players should now fear being upgraded, it goes hand in hand with progress and ambition, something we are thankfully demonstrating as a club.

I think if you are thinking about names to replace Mings, that’s an error, Lange & Co will be looking at how we can statistically improve the defensive numbers, it will be analytics: how and why we concede and what we look for as attributes to improve. I am sure Mings’ dubious accolade as making more defensive errors than any other player in two years is known but he must compensate elsewhere. But at some point the percentage improvements needed will point to Mings.

[TRO]

53 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Exactly.

For some reason, Mings just seems to get it in the neck a lot more and it really isn't fair tbh. Fans have their favourites, though, I suppose.

The unfortunate situation is, when Mings makes a mistake, it seems to often lead to a goal.....but, its funny he has 11 clean sheets for England, is he better protected there? or is the opposition more inferior?

Tyrones overall game has me believing he should be playing, no doubt in my mind.....but equally we have to stop gifting goals.....sure on another day a lesser player could have missed that, but quality players, punish those mistakes.

I still have a gut feeling our CB's are too exposed at times and we are open to this kind of threat.....in contrast Chelea's defence was a block and a well organised one that regrouped with consumate ease....Fort Knox.

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by TRO

[CVByrne]

18 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I agree with that. But I would also ask, Can we do better than Mings? and I believe the answer to that is Yes

I think the opposite. I think because of his few mistakes we will be keeping Mings for the rest of his career. He'll iron them out over time too. 

[Peter Griffin]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I have still have a gut feeling our CB's are too exposed at times and we are open to this kind of threat.....in contrast Chelea's defence was a block and a well organised one that regrouped with consumate ease....Fort Knox.

 

They also had the luxury to bring on Jorginho at H/T as a result of us getting the upper hand from an attacking perspective.A combination of good management & tactics and having the quality on the bench to back up your plan B

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I think the opposite. I think because of his few mistakes we will be keeping Mings for the rest of his career. He'll iron them out over time too. 

He's been with us for over 2 and a half years and is 28 years old. He should have ironed these things out by now.

[Zatman]

38 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I agree with that. But I would also ask, Can we do better than Mings? and I believe the answer to that is Yes

And who is this mystery left footed  defender with leadership skills that we will sign? 

[Woody1000]

5 minutes ago, Zatman said:

And who is this mystery left footed  defender with leadership skills that we will sign? 

For god’s sake, don’t you know that’s Lange’s job!

[TRO]

40 minutes ago, lexicon said:

If Watkins or Ings had done the same to a Chelsea defender, hand on heart now, would you be praising them or thinking that what they'd done was made easy by the defender? The only person I think could have made somewhat of a difference to goals one or two (besides the error itself) would be Martinez in goal, as he might have been able to get something of the first, and he certainly wouldn't have stopped rushing Kovacic for the 2nd, which may have put him off. It's theorising, though.

well, we always look for the positives, so I guess, yes we would look to be praising our forwards, just like Chelsea fans will.....they won't even blink at our defensive errors.

It depends from who's perspective, one is looking.

but its natural, when we concede, to see/discuss why......I would be amazed if at BMH this morning, they are not doing the same.

I believe on another day, we would have scored goals, Chelsea's defending was sublime.

 

[lexicon]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

well, we always look for the positives, so I guess, yes we would look to be praising our forwards, just like Chelsea fans will.....they won't even blink at our defensive errors.

It depends from who's perspective, one is looking.

but its natural, when we concede, to see/discuss why......I would be amazed if at BMH this morning, they are not doing the same.

I believe on another day, we would have scored goals, Chelsea's defending was sublime.

 

I agree with this - we were a little unfortunate that many of our chances were straight at Mendy (who had a great game anyway) and Watkins had a glorious opportunity that he unfortunately missed. I think the main talking point in terms of Chelsea's defence was how they handled Ings - he barely got a sniff all game and his one decent half-chance IIRC was at Mendy again. 

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, lexicon said:

I agree with this - we were a little unfortunate that many of our chances were straight at Mendy (who had a great game anyway) and Watkins had a glorious opportunity that he unfortunately missed. I think the main talking point in terms of Chelsea's defence was how they handled Ings - he barely got a sniff all game and his one decent half-chance IIRC was at Mendy again. 

its worth noting, their ability to form a block as quickly and ably as they did, was amazing, every time we threatened they retreated like Roman Soldiers preparing for a battle.

I thought Ollie had a really good game....it's just the Chelsea back line, aided by a superb goalkeeper was something else.

I don't think we will face, such a formidable defence (as well organised as that) ,all season

Edited September 13, 2021 by TRO

[Sulberto21]

13 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

Because errors from a CB cost us points and stop us progressing to be a Euro qualification team

Maguire and Stones make fewer errors and certainly fewer costly errors. With Stones, when he starting making errors he was dropped and out of the City 1st XI. He looked done and dusted and City and then came back into the team last season and he was excellent for them and that is why he got back into the England setup. Also, we (like most teams outside the top 4/6) have more need for our defenders to be less error prone as we don not have the quality players in the rest of the team as they do. Our errors will cost us more than their errors. Look at Chelsea and Liverpool, you don't see too many errors at the back from them.

Stones doesn't have to defend because Man City normally have 65%+ possession. When he does have to defend its usually against a sporadic attack. Same with Maguire.

Look at Mings for England never looks troubled. Clean sheets for the last few games he has played dating back to the Euro's maybe before that too but I can't remember.

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

its worth noting, their ability to form a block as quickly and ably as they did, was amazing, every time we threatened they retreated like Roman Soldiers preparing for a battle.

I thought Ollie had a really good game....it's just the Chelsea back line, aided by a superb goalkeeper was something else.

Ollie was a bit rusty, I felt - not in terms of work rate, but just with the ball at his feet - particularly in the first half. 

As for Chelsea, they're definitely title contenders this season. Tuchel's got them well-drilled and has so much talent at his disposal. Winning three nil when you don't play especially well is quite something. 

[Sulberto21]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

well, we always look for the positives, so I guess, yes we would look to be praising our forwards, just like Chelsea fans will.....they won't even blink at our defensive errors.

It depends from who's perspective, one is looking.

but its natural, when we concede, to see/discuss why......I would be amazed if at BMH this morning, they are not doing the same.

I believe on another day, we would have scored goals, Chelsea's defending was sublime.

 

I disagree with this because we had lots of chances that we should have scored. Mendy's keeping however was sublime. Jorginho was good coupled with the second goal that nullified us a bit. But we still had good chances in the second half too.

[Sulberto21]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Pete, I thought Chelsea's defending was sublime, their blocks alone were mind boggling......It's one of the reasons, I think they will win it(Prem).....obviously with Lukaku's finishing just about make them the close to perfect team.

Despite our heroics, I still think baring the brain farts, we played far better than anyone is giving us credit for.

I still think Emi in goal and It could have been a different match....he gives the centre backs confidence....Steer didn't do anything wrong, its just the presence of Emi.

Definitely. His shithousery alone is worth 10 points a season.