Tyrone Mings

[HalfTimePost]

 

[HalfTimePost]

 

[lapal_fan]

16 minutes ago, one_ian_taylor said:

Tymi Bings

Just look at that knee joint

[Deano & Dalian's Umbrella]

51 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Just out of interest, and a genuine question, is this the kind of injury that builds up over time and then takes the slightest awkward moment to trigger? Or is it just a freak one off incident that cause the knee to go? 

Like, lets say Tyrone didn't suffer the injury against Newcastle, would it only have been a matter of time before it went? It's just that he wasn't aware of how weak it had become?

I just find it odd it looked so innocuous when it happened. Almost like it was going to happen at some point regardless given what little triggered it. 

 

I swore I would never post on here about injuries again because I get so many sarcastic replies but when someone asks a question, I like to answer so:

99% of the time, this is a one-off acute injury that is not something waiting to happen.

The injury might look innocuous to you but the position that Mings' knee went in to - dynamic lower extremity valgus (knocked knee position) is the most common mechanism of injury for ACL injury.

And you can tell it is an ACL injury from how his knee joint moved out of place and then suddenly clunked back into position (called the pivot shift phenomenon)

The cases I know of where this injury was an accident waiting to happen is where people have gradually and repeatedly stretched the ACL out over time by hyperextending (over-straigthening) the knee. 

A famous case is Tiger Woods who used to purposely snap his knee into hyperextension when driving (a golf ball not a car) to get more distance and eventually it stretched out that much it was useless.

I also had a kickboxer patient who did the same on both knees.

Having said that, there are a number of proposed and not entirely well-understood risk factors that can make someone more predisposed to ACL injury (women in particular). These can involve anatomical variations and muscle imbalances and biomechanical variabilities.  

Given that FIFA have an exercise programme to try and reduce ACL injury risk that has been used with kids for years, I'm sure efforts would be made by the medical and coaching staff to minimise the risk of such injuries so I wouldn't put any blame there.

Finally, to ward off the usual sarcastic responses, I have degrees in physiotherapy and sports medicine, have worked as a physio at Villa and other clubs, and have published several papers on ACL injury in different journals including the British Journal of Sports Medicine.

I have not wanted to say this before but last time I posted about Carlos' injury and said tendon ruptures were, unlike ACL injuries, not one-off bad luck injuries but caused by overuse and degeneration, nobody would have any of it, so that is why I'm saying it now.

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Deano & Dalian's Umbrella

[The_Steve]

Ty’s academy Instagram page is still up - please direct your supportive comments there 

[Chasetown Villa]

He’s deleted every post on his Instagram apart from a post he’s just put up about coming back stronger. 

[birdman]

3 minutes ago, Deano & Dalian's Umbrella said:

 

I swore I would never post on here about injuries again because I get so many sarcastic replies but when someone asks a question, I like to answer so:

99% of the time, this is a one-off acute injury that is not something waiting to happen.

The injury might look innocuous to you but the position that Mings' knee went in to - dynamic lower extremity valgus (knocked knee position) is the most common mechanism of injury for ACL injury.

And you can tell it is an ACL injury from how his knee joint moved out of place and then suddenly clunked back into position (called the pivot shift phenomenon)

The cases I know of where this injury was an accident waiting to happen is where people have gradually and repeatedly stretched the ACL out over time by hyperextending (over-straigthening) the knee. 

A famous case is Tiger Woods who used to purposely snap his knee into hyperextension when driving (a golf ball not a car) to get more distance and eventually it stretched out that much it was useless.

I also had a kickboxer patient who did the same on both knees.

Having said that, there are a number of proposed and not entirely well-understood risk factors that can make someone more predisposed to ACL injury (women in particular). These can involve anatomical variations and muscle imbalances and biomechanical variabilities.  

Given that FIFA have an exercise programme to try and reduce ACL injury risk that has been used with kids for years, I'm sure efforts would be made by the medical and coaching staff to minimise the risk of such injuries so I wouldn't put any blame there.

Finally, to ward off the usual sarcastic responses, I have degrees in physiotherapy and sports medicine, have worked as a physio at Villa and other clubs, and have published several papers on ACL injury.

 

 

 

Excellent insight thankyou  

[Deano & Dalian's Umbrella]

1 minute ago, birdman said:

Excellent insight thankyou  

You're welcome and sorry for the defensive mini-rant either side of it.

[lexicon]

8 minutes ago, Deano & Dalian's Umbrella said:

 

I swore I would never post on here about injuries again because I get so many sarcastic replies but when someone asks a question, I like to answer so:

99% of the time, this is a one-off acute injury that is not something waiting to happen.

The injury might look innocuous to you but the position that Mings' knee went in to - dynamic lower extremity valgus (knocked knee position) is the most common mechanism of injury for ACL injury.

And you can tell it is an ACL injury from how his knee joint moved out of place and then suddenly clunked back into position (called the pivot shift phenomenon)

The cases I know of where this injury was an accident waiting to happen is where people have gradually and repeatedly stretched the ACL out over time by hyperextending (over-straigthening) the knee. 

A famous case is Tiger Woods who used to purposely snap his knee into hyperextension when driving (a golf ball not a car) to get more distance and eventually it stretched out that much it was useless.

I also had a kickboxer patient who did the same on both knees.

Having said that, there are a number of proposed and not entirely well-understood risk factors that can make someone more predisposed to ACL injury (women in particular). These can involve anatomical variations and muscle imbalances and biomechanical variabilities.  

Given that FIFA have an exercise programme to try and reduce ACL injury risk that has been used with kids for years, I'm sure efforts would be made by the medical and coaching staff to minimise the risk of such injuries so I wouldn't put any blame there.

Finally, to ward off the usual sarcastic responses, I have degrees in physiotherapy and sports medicine, have worked as a physio at Villa and other clubs, and have published several papers on ACL injury in different journals including the British Journal of Sports Medicine.

I have not wanted to say this before but last time I posted about Carlos' injury and said tendon ruptures were, unlike ACL injuries, not one-off bad luck injuries but caused by overuse and degeneration, nobody would have any of it, so that is why I'm saying it now.

 

 

 

Please ignore the idiots, it's really interesting to read this sort of thing from a professional who knows what they're talking about. Thanks. 

[The Fun Factory]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

We are being told how long he's expected to be out. I'd like to know what ligaments. Are we talking he can play again this season or he's out for 15/16 months as he's done other ligaments too.

So gutted for him. Wish we were told more though than we are. 

Well  in the Buendia statement the club  gave an 8-month timeframe, nothing in Mings statement. WhatI take  from that his season is ruined and possibly a bit longer

[WHY]

9 minutes ago, Deano & Dalian's Umbrella said:

 

I swore I would never post on here about injuries again because I get so many sarcastic replies but when someone asks a question, I like to answer so:

99% of the time, this is a one-off acute injury that is not something waiting to happen.

The injury might look innocuous to you but the position that Mings' knee went in to - dynamic lower extremity valgus (knocked knee position) is the most common mechanism of injury for ACL injury.

And you can tell it is an ACL injury from how his knee joint moved out of place and then suddenly clunked back into position (called the pivot shift phenomenon)

The cases I know of where this injury was an accident waiting to happen is where people have gradually and repeatedly stretched the ACL out over time by hyperextending (over-straigthening) the knee. 

A famous case is Tiger Woods who used to purposely snap his knee into hyperextension when driving (a golf ball not a car) to get more distance and eventually it stretched out that much it was useless.

I also had a kickboxer patient who did the same on both knees.

Having said that, there are a number of proposed and not entirely well-understood risk factors that can make someone more predisposed to ACL injury (women in particular). These can involve anatomical variations and muscle imbalances and biomechanical variabilities.  

Given that FIFA have an exercise programme to try and reduce ACL injury risk that has been used with kids for years, I'm sure efforts would be made by the medical and coaching staff to minimise the risk of such injuries so I wouldn't put any blame there.

Finally, to ward off the usual sarcastic responses, I have degrees in physiotherapy and sports medicine, have worked as a physio at Villa and other clubs, and have published several papers on ACL injury in different journals including the British Journal of Sports Medicine.

I have not wanted to say this before but last time I posted about Carlos' injury and said tendon ruptures were, unlike ACL injuries, not one-off bad luck injuries but caused by overuse and degeneration, nobody would have any of it, so that is why I'm saying it now.

 

 

 

Appreciate the post mate and I get why you added the bit at the start

[cheltenham_villa]

10 minutes ago, Deano & Dalian's Umbrella said:

 

I swore I would never post on here about injuries again because I get so many sarcastic replies but when someone asks a question, I like to answer so:

99% of the time, this is a one-off acute injury that is not something waiting to happen.

The injury might look innocuous to you but the position that Mings' knee went in to - dynamic lower extremity valgus (knocked knee position) is the most common mechanism of injury for ACL injury.

And you can tell it is an ACL injury from how his knee joint moved out of place and then suddenly clunked back into position (called the pivot shift phenomenon)

The cases I know of where this injury was an accident waiting to happen is where people have gradually and repeatedly stretched the ACL out over time by hyperextending (over-straigthening) the knee. 

A famous case is Tiger Woods who used to purposely snap his knee into hyperextension when driving (a golf ball not a car) to get more distance and eventually it stretched out that much it was useless.

I also had a kickboxer patient who did the same on both knees.

Having said that, there are a number of proposed and not entirely well-understood risk factors that can make someone more predisposed to ACL injury (women in particular). These can involve anatomical variations and muscle imbalances and biomechanical variabilities.  

Given that FIFA have an exercise programme to try and reduce ACL injury risk that has been used with kids for years, I'm sure efforts would be made by the medical and coaching staff to minimise the risk of such injuries so I wouldn't put any blame there.

Finally, to ward off the usual sarcastic responses, I have degrees in physiotherapy and sports medicine, have worked as a physio at Villa and other clubs, and have published several papers on ACL injury in different journals including the British Journal of Sports Medicine.

I have not wanted to say this before but last time I posted about Carlos' injury and said tendon ruptures were, unlike ACL injuries, not one-off bad luck injuries but caused by overuse and degeneration, nobody would have any of it, so that is why I'm saying it now.

 

 

 

fascinating insight, thank you. Please continue to share knowing that many really enjoy these posts

[chrisvilla4]

So so gutted about this.  Ty has been immense for us, I've no doubt he will be cheering us on when he is mentally ready and able to do so. Going to need a lot of good people around him.

Get well soon Ty.

[The Fun Factory]

12 minutes ago, Deano & Dalian's Umbrella said:

 

I swore I would never post on here about injuries again because I get so many sarcastic replies but when someone asks a question, I like to answer so:

99% of the time, this is a one-off acute injury that is not something waiting to happen.

The injury might look innocuous to you but the position that Mings' knee went in to - dynamic lower extremity valgus (knocked knee position) is the most common mechanism of injury for ACL injury.

And you can tell it is an ACL injury from how his knee joint moved out of place and then suddenly clunked back into position (called the pivot shift phenomenon)

The cases I know of where this injury was an accident waiting to happen is where people have gradually and repeatedly stretched the ACL out over time by hyperextending (over-straigthening) the knee. 

A famous case is Tiger Woods who used to purposely snap his knee into hyperextension when driving (a golf ball not a car) to get more distance and eventually it stretched out that much it was useless.

I also had a kickboxer patient who did the same on both knees.

Having said that, there are a number of proposed and not entirely well-understood risk factors that can make someone more predisposed to ACL injury (women in particular). These can involve anatomical variations and muscle imbalances and biomechanical variabilities.  

Given that FIFA have an exercise programme to try and reduce ACL injury risk that has been used with kids for years, I'm sure efforts would be made by the medical and coaching staff to minimise the risk of such injuries so I wouldn't put any blame there.

Finally, to ward off the usual sarcastic responses, I have degrees in physiotherapy and sports medicine, have worked as a physio at Villa and other clubs, and have published several papers on ACL injury in different journals including the British Journal of Sports Medicine.

I have not wanted to say this before but last time I posted about Carlos' injury and said tendon ruptures were, unlike ACL injuries, not one-off bad luck injuries but caused by overuse and degeneration, nobody would have any of it, so that is why I'm saying it now.

 

 

 

Apologies as is this a layman question but I thought the new £6 million pound sports performance centre at Bodymoor was supposed to do much more physical analysis of the players. Should they been aware of degeneration?  Since that has been built we have had 3 really bad injuries from senior players.

[Tommo_b]

Sounds like it could be worse than EMI’s, gutting, get back into Europe and Mings won’t get to be a part of it. Ideally I’d love if he still attended every game and was keep as a close part of the spirit of the squad on match days. 

[Chicken Field]

17 minutes ago, Deano & Dalian's Umbrella said:

 

I swore I would never post on here about injuries again because I get so many sarcastic replies but when someone asks a question, I like to answer so:

99% of the time, this is a one-off acute injury that is not something waiting to happen.

The injury might look innocuous to you but the position that Mings' knee went in to - dynamic lower extremity valgus (knocked knee position) is the most common mechanism of injury for ACL injury.

And you can tell it is an ACL injury from how his knee joint moved out of place and then suddenly clunked back into position (called the pivot shift phenomenon)

The cases I know of where this injury was an accident waiting to happen is where people have gradually and repeatedly stretched the ACL out over time by hyperextending (over-straigthening) the knee. 

A famous case is Tiger Woods who used to purposely snap his knee into hyperextension when driving (a golf ball not a car) to get more distance and eventually it stretched out that much it was useless.

I also had a kickboxer patient who did the same on both knees.

Having said that, there are a number of proposed and not entirely well-understood risk factors that can make someone more predisposed to ACL injury (women in particular). These can involve anatomical variations and muscle imbalances and biomechanical variabilities.  

Given that FIFA have an exercise programme to try and reduce ACL injury risk that has been used with kids for years, I'm sure efforts would be made by the medical and coaching staff to minimise the risk of such injuries so I wouldn't put any blame there.

Finally, to ward off the usual sarcastic responses, I have degrees in physiotherapy and sports medicine, have worked as a physio at Villa and other clubs, and have published several papers on ACL injury in different journals including the British Journal of Sports Medicine.

I have not wanted to say this before but last time I posted about Carlos' injury and said tendon ruptures were, unlike ACL injuries, not one-off bad luck injuries but caused by overuse and degeneration, nobody would have any of it, so that is why I'm saying it now.

 

 

 

Great post

 

Quick question. I know no two injuries are the same and that there are 100's of factors involved in rehabilition and risk factor etc., but would the injury Carlos got mean he has a worse prognosis and increased risk at devolping similar injuries again, wheras Mings prognosis, once healed, should mean he is not at an increased risk of similar injury? (

[Deano & Dalian's Umbrella]

6 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Apologies as is this a layman question but I thought the new £6 million pound sports performance centre at Bodymoor was supposed to do much more physical analysis of the players. Should they been aware of degeneration?  Since that has been built we have had 3 really bad injuries from senior players.

This is a difficult one because if you scan the tendons of most athletes, there will be some degree of degeneration and many will have no symptoms and no problems ever happen.

But if someone is complaining of tendon pain or discomfort, you definitely should investigate it and get an ultrasound scan  - then pain plus degeneration is a warning sign.

As a more preventative measure, you shouldn't hammer people in in pre-season or when they first come to the club and build up their training load gradually.  

From what I hear just as a fan, there seems to be lots of emphasis on managing training load these days, so hopefully Carlos was allowed to bed in gradually when he arrived.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Deano & Dalian's Umbrella

[DJ_Villain]

Such a shame.

He is our rock… Not only a fantastic defender, but a brilliant leader… articulate and polite speaker…

He really is the kind of person you’d want as the face to your football club…

Get well soon Colossus!

[MakemineVanilla]

11 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

For sure. We are all absolutely gutted. I just wish some wouldn’t wallow in the misery of it. 

 

Football is all about the agony and the ecstacy; unfortunately, if you've never felt the agony, you'll never feel the ecstacy!

[Deano & Dalian's Umbrella]

Just now, Chicken Field said:

Great post

 

Quick question. I know no two injuries are the same and that there are 100's of factors involved in rehabilition and risk factor etc., but would the injury Carlos got mean he has a worse prognosis and increased risk at devolping similar injuries again, wheras Mings prognosis, once healed, should mean he is not at an increased risk of similar injury? (

 

Because there are predisposing factors to ACL injury, many of which you can do nothing about, it is not uncommon for someone who has done one ACL to do the other - so some people are just at more risk of ACL than others.  

I have seen a paper where people who had one achilles rupture were more likely to rupture the other one.  The theories put forwards for this were either genetic predisposition or the likelihood that if you have degeneration in one limb, you are likely to have it in the other one too:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1600-0838.2004.00344.x

 

So to answer your question, in both cases you are at increased risk of doing it again but tendon injury is more preventable with common sense about not doing too much too soon.