Tyrone Mings

[hippo]

3 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

Most goals come from a mistake somewhere in the process. Even our goal was essentially their defenders colliding and Alisson not pushing it away.

To get a centre half who doesn't make mistakes you're paying over £80m and even then you might get Harry Maguire.

Van Dijk, Rudiger, Dias, anyone else?

The list of CBs in the Prem who don't make mistakes is very, very short.

Nah - Rhys's Williams & Joe Gomez are where it's at mate

[Adam2003]

5 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Well he's a defender, where do you want him to be?

I get the point though - he dropped five yards off Konsa the other day meaning Cornet could break the line easily for Burnley’s goal without worrying about offside. As I said in another thread though that could also be seen as Konsa’s error or as a miscommunication and that’s the theme I think - they tend to not be lined up.

Maybe this is a new thing to try to handle the modern offside interpretation and I am just dated!

[est1874]

We've outgrown him unfortunately. It happens. We were very quick to decide that the likes of El Ghazi were not good enough to be in the starting 11 after surviving our first season back in the Prem, I'm not sure why Mings is still a starter and also our captain.

I loved the man when he came in, he had exactly the level of passion and willpower that we needed at the time to get promoted, and he was an adequate centre-half in our first season back when we couldn't afford to spend a fortune on improving individual areas, but that time is done now.

We absolutely need a better #5 and a better leader for the team too. Sorry Tyrone.

[Dale]

6 minutes ago, est1874 said:

We've outgrown him unfortunately. It happens. We were very quick to decide that the likes of El Ghazi were not good enough to be in the starting 11 after surviving our first season back in the Prem, I'm not sure why Mings is still a starter and also our captain.

I loved the man when he came in, he had exactly the level of passion and willpower that we needed at the time to get promoted, and he was an adequate centre-half in our first season back when we couldn't afford to spend a fortune on improving individual areas, but that time is done now.

We absolutely need a better #5 and a better leader for the team too. Sorry Tyrone.

Nonsense. 

[Aston_Villan4]

10 minutes ago, est1874 said:

We've outgrown him unfortunately. It happens. We were very quick to decide that the likes of El Ghazi were not good enough to be in the starting 11 after surviving our first season back in the Prem, I'm not sure why Mings is still a starter and also our captain.

I loved the man when he came in, he had exactly the level of passion and willpower that we needed at the time to get promoted, and he was an adequate centre-half in our first season back when we couldn't afford to spend a fortune on improving individual areas, but that time is done now.

We absolutely need a better #5 and a better leader for the team too. Sorry Tyrone.

Excellent satire.

[est1874]

3 minutes ago, Dale said:

Nonsense. 

Please elaborate. In what way is it nonsense?

Like, he stood on the ball with both feet instead of clearing it in the run-up to the equalizer. 

We need better, full stop.

[est1874]

1 minute ago, Aston_Villan4 said:

Excellent satire.

This kind of dismissive response just exposes that you have nothing constructive or meaningful to offer in defending your opinion. So I'll feel free to just tell you you're wrong and leave it at that.

[Delphinho123]

14 minutes ago, est1874 said:

We've outgrown him unfortunately. It happens. We were very quick to decide that the likes of El Ghazi were not good enough to be in the starting 11 after surviving our first season back in the Prem, I'm not sure why Mings is still a starter and also our captain.

I loved the man when he came in, he had exactly the level of passion and willpower that we needed at the time to get promoted, and he was an adequate centre-half in our first season back when we couldn't afford to spend a fortune on improving individual areas, but that time is done now.

We absolutely need a better #5 and a better leader for the team too. Sorry Tyrone.

I don't agree with this at all. 
Why are you bringing El Ghazi into this? El Ghazi wasn't good enough for us in the Championship for the most part. Aside from a handful of games (the playoff final incl.), he was poor. The fee was nominal but I don't think the club expected him to step up and be anything but a stop gap.

Mings was the best defender in the Championship and has improved since being promoted. He's our leader and often our best player in games. I actually think he's been a viable candidate for POTS. I've criticised him in the past and often thought we could improve on him but then he proves me wrong time and time again. He's not perfect, and he'll probably cost you a goal every 5/6 games, but I'm sure most defenders do. Like another poster mentioned, you'd have to pay a helluva lot of money to find a better centre half and right now, we need to invest in other areas of the squad.

We should be focusing on bringing in a better partner for Mings. Konsa has gone backwards and doesn't look to be the top defender we thought he was and I think Chambers is a mid-table level centre half at best. In 2/3 seasons time, if we're still on this upwards trajectory, that's when Tyrone needs to be looked at but not now for me. 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Delphinho123

[NurembergVillan]

2 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

Dias has been very average in the champions league though. And in the euro’s he looked like Bambi, not the rock he is at Man City.

And then there were 2.

There is no perfect defender and trying to find a CB who is even 20% better than Mings would cost us an absolute fortune.

There aren't many in the PL who I'd realistically swap him for, to be honest.

[Delphinho123]

1 minute ago, NurembergVillan said:

And then there were 2.

There is no perfect defender and trying to find a CB who is even 20% better than Mings would cost us an absolute fortune.

There aren't many in the PL who I'd realistically swap him for, to be honest.

100% this. 

Digne, Mings, Cash and Martinez should make up 4 of our back 5 next season. I think we do need to sign a centre half for fairly sizeable money in the Summer, but it won't be to replace Mings. 

[Aston_Villan4]

3 minutes ago, est1874 said:

This kind of dismissive response just exposes that you have nothing constructive or meaningful to offer in defending your opinion. So I'll feel free to just tell you you're wrong and leave it at that.

Oh so you were being genuine? Then you’re simply daft. Just look at other replies to your post to see that. The simple fact that you’ve somehow compared Mings to
El Ghazi is enough to write off your comments.

[est1874]

2 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I don't agree with this at all. 
Why are you bringing El Ghazi into this? El Ghazi wasn't good enough for us in the Championship for the most part. Aside from a handful of games (the playoff final incl.), he was poor. The fee was nominal but I don't think the club expected him to step up and be anything but a stop gap.

Mings was the best defender in the Championship and has improved since being promoted. He's our leader and often our best player in games. I actually think he's been a viable candidate for POTS. I've criticised him in the past and often thought we could improve on him but then he proves me wrong time and time again. He's not perfect, and he'll probably cost you a goal every 5/6 games, but I'm sure most defenders do. Like another poster mentioned, you'd have to pay a helluva lot of money to find a better centre half and right now, we need to invest in other areas of the squad.

We should be focusing on bringing in a better partner for Mings. Konsa has gone backwards and doesn't look to be the top defender we thought he was and I think Chambers is a mid-table level centre half at best. In 2/3 seasons time, if we're still on this upwards trajectory, that's when Tyrone needs to be looked at but not now for me. 

 

Every 5/6 games would be nice.

Agree Konsa probably not good enough either but he has made marginally less howlers over the last 2 seasons which leads me to believe that he can be more consistently trusted, he's been going through a bad patch recently whereas Mings has never ever been consistently trustworthy under pressure. 

It is a liability for us to have a centre-half that opposition fans (never mind opposition players!) know they can wind up from the safety of the terraces, the man looks like a brick wall of 88 minutes of every game but makes so many simple errors in the other 2 mins of regular time that it undoes all our good work defensively - time and time and time again.

The argument of "Well it's extremely hard to find someone better so let's just stick with him" is totally facile and lazy, I mean is this not why we have a highly paid Director of Football? Is this not why we have a scouting network?

Yes of course it would be expensive to get a truly great #5 in. But we have money to spend, so for god's sake let's spend it and improve one of the areas of the park where we desperately need more consistency.

[Dale]

9 minutes ago, est1874 said:

Please elaborate. In what way is it nonsense?

Like, he stood on the ball with both feet instead of clearing it in the run-up to the equalizer. 

We need better, full stop.

He makes mistakes, no where as near as often as people claim, and that was one such mistake. 

Fundamentally he is a very very good defender. With another ball player and composed presence alongside him he'd be even better. 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Dale

[est1874]

2 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said:

Oh so you were being genuine? Then you’re simply daft. Just look at other replies to your post to see that. The simple fact that you’ve somehow compared Mings to
El Ghazi is enough to write off your comments.

Wasn't a comparison. Was an example of how we've been willing to allow ourselves to outgrow players who are not good enough to help us achieve what we're attempting to achieve. The fact you can't see the difference and immediately think it's a "comparison" tells me everything I need to know.

[Indigo]

Last season Konsa per game made less blocks (shots and otherwise), clearances, tackles + interceptions than Mings, was significantly worse in the air than him, as well as almost all aspects of possession from how many touches he had, how far he carried the ball, how progressive his passing was and so forth.

It isn't just that Konsa is having a dip this season, Mings has always been a better, more important player than him that is much less replaceable. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Indigo

[Aston_Villan4]

10 minutes ago, est1874 said:

Wasn't a comparison. Was an example of how we've been willing to allow ourselves to outgrow players who are not good enough to help us achieve what we're attempting to achieve. The fact you can't see the difference and immediately think it's a "comparison" tells me everything I need to know.

Lol. The good ole “tells me everything I need to know” insult. Sorry, but by saying they’re both players we’ve outgrown you are, in essence, comparing the two. Mings is certainly capable of being a top team CB. Whether or not he should be the main CB is a good debate though. El Ghazi is a mediocre at best winger who can’t even get into the starting lineup at a relegation battling Everton.

 

[Keyblade]

4 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

Most goals come from a mistake somewhere in the process. Even our goal was essentially their defenders colliding and Alisson not pushing it away.

To get a centre half who doesn't make mistakes you're paying over £80m and even then you might get Harry Maguire.

Van Dijk, Rudiger, Dias, anyone else?

The list of CBs in the Prem who don't make mistakes is very, very short.

Dias cost City the CL semifinal.

The god Van Dijk was getting pulled all over the place by Ollie Watkins and got nutmegged on the edge of his box (seems to be a VP special that). 

All that to say that they all make mistakes.

If not for Cash's superb consistent form, Ty would be our player of the season.

[villa4europe]

26 minutes ago, est1874 said:

Please elaborate. In what way is it nonsense?

Like, he stood on the ball with both feet instead of clearing it in the run-up to the equalizer. 

We need better, full stop.

a guy who stands every chance of being the starting CB for one of the tournament favourites in the upcoming world cup, on current form even with what he did last night he's englands best in form CB has been out grown by aston villa who are 11th in the PL

definitely not nonsense

we should sell him to 4th in the table CL team next season arsenal for £60m and go buy bastoni from inter milan for £20m

[villa4europe]

4 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

Most goals come from a mistake somewhere in the process. Even our goal was essentially their defenders colliding and Alisson not pushing it away.

To get a centre half who doesn't make mistakes you're paying over £80m and even then you might get Harry Maguire.

Van Dijk, Rudiger, Dias, anyone else?

The list of CBs in the Prem who don't make mistakes is very, very short.

that for me personally is why i don't like the word mistake, I think bad defending gets dragged in to being a mistake and then the mistakes leading to goals stats always look low in comparison

I would class alisson last night as bad goalkeeping rather than a mistake, what mings did kind of sits in between the 2, its definitely bad football but I'm not sure its a mistake

seen talk of who made a mistake for liverpools 2nd goal and for me no one did really, there's some sloppy passing, there's someone not being switched on, there's the old argument about how aggressively you close down a player, some bad positioning but there's no mistake in there, its a good goal from them

there's a clamor to find a mistake after every goal, I hate it

i'll throw something else in as well, keita whiffed an easy goal, completely miskicked it with his right and it hit his left, it happens! maybe it shouldnt but it does, it happens down the power league, it happens on a sunday morning and it happens in the PL, there's very little appreciation for it even though really people who play football should know exactly why it happens

[duke313]

8 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Dias cost City the CL semifinal.

The god Van Dijk was getting pulled all over the place by Ollie Watkins and got nutmegged on the edge of his box (seems to be a VP special that). 

All that to say that they all make mistakes.

If not for Cash's superb consistent form, Ty would be our player of the season.

There's a bit of a difference in making a mistake against Real Madrid in a CL semi-final, and making mistakes against every other week in the Premier League.  No defender plays perfectly every match, even VVD and Dias will make mistakes now and again, but they don't do it regularly.  If Mings never made mistakes, and was the perfect defender, he wouldn't be playing for us.