Dean Smith

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Eastie said:

It was a good strike but still close to the keeper who never moved an inch - there were some great performances last night and some poor ones - hourihane was poor and were most of the defence , keeper was shocking again - we cannot rely on needing to score 3 or more goals to win games , against poorer teams we may get away with Connor sitting deep but last night we needed a more solid defensive option - interesting to see Doyle - Hayes on the bench 

That game was interesting for me in the sense that almost the same players who struggled against Forest, struggled against Blues. it wasn't really a one off in some ways.

Blues second Goal? with no one closing down.....and lets be fair Blues could have been 2-0 up, just like Forest. Forest were more clinical than Blues that was the main difference.

both games were defensively poor from our point of view.....we need January quick.

The problem is everyone and his grandmother, knows we can't defend and we will become more of a target.

Edited November 29, 2018 by TRO

[hippo]

I didn't defend Bruce to the hilt. He should have done better - and had to go when he did.

Smith I presume will be judged by much the same criteria - I think if he got us play offs this season that would be a great achievement - But like Bruce if he doesn't secure promotion in his 2nd season then questions will be asked.  I don't think he is the nailed on promotion winning manager that many on here do - but whether thats right or wrong will come back to results. 

 

 

[mikeyjavfc]

2 hours ago, KJT123 said:

Taken from the excellent Experimental361 site

That is pretty damning on Nyland and the defense. Forest would have been expected to score once from the chances they had and they scored 5. 

[hippo]

6 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

To be fair, Bruce probably has **** all else to do now apart from troll VT.

I'm stunned anyone can have witnessed the dross we played under Bruce, watched him squander resources, embed us deeply in the shit with his transfer business, and still defend him, and start having a dig at the new guy who has us playing football within weeks of taking over. While still being dragged down by the inadequacies of the previous manager's squad.

 

Where have I "had a go" - if saying he is accountable results  (which everyone is now agreeing he is) is deemed having a go ----????

I am sure if you asked Dean Smith "Who is accountable for results at Aston Villa" - he would say "I am" 

[Wainy316]

16 minutes ago, TRO said:

That game was interesting for me in the sense that almost the same players who struggled against Forest, struggled against Blues. it wasn't really a one off in some ways.

Blues second Goal? with no one closing down.....and lets be fair Blues could have been 2-0 up, just like Forest. Forest were more clinical than Blues that was the main difference.

both games were defensively poor from our point of view.....we need January quick.

The problem is everyone and his grandmother, knows we can't defend and we will become more of a target.

Everyone and their grandmother may also be reluctant to commit men forward though as they've seen how bloody dangerous we can be ourselves.

But yeah, we do need January.

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, hippo said:

Where have I "had a go" - if saying he is accountable results  (which everyone is now agreeing he is) is deemed having a go ----????

I am sure if you asked Dean Smith "Who is accountable for results at Aston Villa" - he would say "I am" 

I think you are just stating the obvious....all managers are accountable for games, that's why they get angry, when players let them down.

However, I don't think any manager is accountable for every move a player makes.

He is responsible for the overall set up, but if players **** up Dean Smith or Steve Bruce cannot be held accountable for that....unless they just carry on playing the player when they have perfectly good options....and in most cases they don't/didn't.

I supported Steve Bruce as you know....but I prefer Dean Smith as our manager, I think players let him down last night, but at present he has little option but to play them.

I disagree with the comment  reported in the Birmingham Mail, where he said he thought we was in control of the game....I don't think either of us was in control, we had  to come from behind 4 times in order to snatch the lead, that's resilience & perseverance not control.....both teams conceding 5 and we should have 7 does not strike me that control was any where near this game.

I will support Dean Smith in the same manner that I supported SB.

Edited November 29, 2018 by TRO

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you are just stating the obvious....all managers are accountable for games, that's why they get angry, when players let them down.

However, I don't think any manager is accountable for every move a player makes.

He is responsible for the overall set up, but if players **** up Dean Smith or Steve Bruce cannot be held accountable for that....unless they just carry on playing the player when they have perfectly good options....and in most cases they don't/didn't.

I supported Steve Bruce as you know....but I prefer Dean Smith as our manager, I think players let him down last night, but at present he has little option but to play them.

I disagree with the comment  reported in the Birmingham Mail, where he said he thought we was in control of the game....I don't think either of us was in control, we had  to come from behind 4 times in order to snatch the lead, that's resilience & perseverance not control.....both teams conceding 5 and we should have 7 does not strike me that control was any where near this game.

Agreed.

If a CB for example - has been having a great season, slices a clearance into his own net - than thats not down to manager as a one off . However the coaching, and player selection, defensive system and style over time should minimise those errors. Work to be done - and not just procuring new players (GK excepted)  

 

[Tayls]

@TRO

control of a game isn’t just about goals scored/conceded though, it’s about possession/passing/chance creation etc etc. 

We know this from the MON days, we never controlled a game, but won lots based on counter attacking having found a system that worked for a certain amount of games before the players were gassed. As soon as we lost a player we fell to shit. 

We should have won last night, better side overall, but, as you say, we were massively let down by our defenders and ‘goalkeeper’.   

...

DS hasn’t had chance to bring in his own players yet, he’s working with what he has and what are our ‘best players’ in certain positions. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Tayls

[Mazrim]

I think saying we controlled the game in terms of possession and chances created is right. Unfortunately there was a shockingly bad defence to take into account, meaning we couldnt control the scoreline. We still should have won.

[Thug]

I also hold Dean Smith accountable.

I hold him to account for the fact that we are bitterly disappointed to draw a game that we clearly should have won, that only 2 months ago would have been quite content to have drawn 0-0 after having been bossed by the opposition.

I hold him to account that we scored 5 goals, and but for a freak scenario where every time they hit the target they scored - we would have come out comfortable winners.

I hold him to account that we have come from 2-0 down, and again from 3-2 down where previously our heads would have dropped and we’d have given up and lost comfortably.

I hold him to account that even at 2-0 down I had every confidence we would score and get back into the game. 

I hold him to account that I have not enjoyed a villa game like that for as long as I can remember.

I expect a heart felt apology from him and full explanation as to why he has given me my mojo back about football in general.

I expect him to tone this shit down, and get a more respectable 0-0 draw next time, and to provide protection to our keeper so that he doesn’t look  like a competition winner.

Consider yourself warned Dean.

 

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, Tayls said:

@TRO

control of a game isn’t just about goals scored/conceded though, it’s about possession/passing/chance creation etc etc. 

We know this from the MON days, we never controlled a game, but won lots based on counter attacking. 

We should have won last night, better side overall, but, as you say, we were massively let down by our defenders and ‘goalkeeper’.   

of course its not....but conversely, I think it would take a well constructed argument to convince anyone that after conceding 5 and coming back 4 times from behind, you were in control of the game.

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

I think saying we controlled the game in terms of possession and chances created is right. Unfortunately there was a shockingly bad defence to take into account, meaning we couldnt control the scoreline. We still should have won.

that's a fair comment.

perhaps we was half in control?

The defence being as bad as the Offence was good.

Edited November 29, 2018 by TRO

[romavillan]

33 minutes ago, mikeyjavfc said:

That is pretty damning on Nyland and the defense. Forest would have been expected to score once from the chances they had and they scored 5. 

Without the gifts, winning that 3-1 or 4-1 and saying "but they had some good chances" would be much closer to normal than what happened yesterday, could have easily played out like that, or it could have finished 8-5. Bonkers that it was 5-5.

Yes we need competition for the keeper, and competition/cover at CB urgently, we also need to work on not giving the ball away when you're the last man and everyone is giving you options in front of you for an easy pass, and we need to work on recovering from an unexpected turnover of possession when we start an attack. Loads to work on, loads of room for improvement, but we're lightyears ahead of where Bruce led us with the same players already. So patience is needed, at least it's not being patient and wathcing anti football horrendously boring games, it's patience whilst being almost too entertained!

Love Smith, love Grealish, it's a brummy revolution and who knows where it's going to take us. Awesome.

[TRO]

39 minutes ago, hippo said:

Agreed.

If a CB for example - has been having a great season, slices a clearance into his own net - than thats not down to manager as a one off . However the coaching, and player selection, defensive system and style over time should minimise those errors. Work to be done - and not just procuring new players (GK excepted)  

 

Personally, and i don't expect folk to agree with me, but the defence, needs an overhaul.

Steve Bruce deployed too many players to look after the defensive side of our game, hence his cautious, containing style....The result was boring unattractive and offensive shy football.....The contrast we now have is a manager that wants to deploy resource more evenly, attack more and take the game to the opposition.( I think we all want that)

The trade off is the once favoured defenders are being exposed as not good enough or short on quality...and that includes the DM role.

Dean Smith is still working with Steve Bruce's team, good ,bad or indifferent....He can only work with what he's got right now.

I think Dean with have observed these issues and deal with them in January, but don't be surprised if a few fan favourites get culled in the process.

[villalad21]

As long as we're there or thereabouts

Edited November 29, 2018 by villalad21

[TRO]

8 hours ago, A'Villan said:

I missed their first two goals whilst trying to find a stream so can't comment on them. I can comment on the 3rd, 4th and 5th though.

First I'd like to point out that both teams knocked it around the pitch with skill and neither side were fearful of playing that killer pass despite the risk of a turnover of possession and with that the threat of a transition going the other way. The tempo was high and both side on the front foot, neither team relented from that throughout. That's exactly how we came to see 10 goals, which brings me to their 3rd goal. A perfectly weighted and placed pass from Lolley is met by a well timed run and composure to finish.

Their 4th goal was a result of a player high on confidence with the skill to execute enjoying a bit too much space to run in and have a ping. I don't think anyone was expecting that effort let alone for it to come off in the way it did. While I consider it preventable I think Lolley earned himself plaudits for a number of moments in this game and this was certainly one of them. Credit to him.

Their 5th was the straw that broke the camels back for me in regards to any patience I was willing to afford Nyland. I was nervous for us as soon as Grabban took possession and Nyland must've been too because I don't understand how he let that ball in between him and the near post.

Aside from that, I thought our defense was actually pretty good. Tuanzebe in particular. The way we played on the ball meant that at times some last-ditch defending was required to prevent a transition from turning deadly and I thought we did a good job of that.

I love how everyone is trying to take the game on and be a threat on the ball under Smith. We should of walked away with 3 points here. Abraham's header should have gone in either side of Pantillimon and McGinn's spectacular two-touch pirouette and effort from outside of the box was possibly the highlight of the night for me, if you thought Lolley's goal was good imagine if McGinn's had gone in. Even Taylor was running into space if Forest allowed him an opening, despite an obvious hesitation probably due to knowing his limits with the ball at his feet, even Taylor can be effective going forward by playing to the principles setup by Smith. Example of taking the game on under Smith's instruction was epitomised by Hutton's goal against Birmingham.

I'm disappointed with the Forest result for a few reasons. I thought we deserved to win, despite Forest being a quality side who turned up on the day, I thought we were better over 90 minutes. We miss out on valuable points and allow a rival to maintain their points lead. I don't know and am reluctant to try and predict where the points will come from between now and the first week of January, so everything we can get will be a big boost.

Overall though very pleased with what I'm seeing under Smith. We play it out from the back with confidence against the best of them and back ourselves to win the 50/50's and play with a bit of zeal which forces a contest and everyone on the pitch to be sharp. I'm just about done talking about our approach under Bruce, but the white flag of surrender and lack of ingenuity that characterised his tenure really has been removed by Smith already. I can only wonder how far Smith may take us at this point.

just an observation.

I find it intriguing how one fan can say Shambolic defence and you say pretty good.

The contrast is significant........just how we all see the game so differently.

 

[briny_ear]

2 hours ago, Davkaus said:

To be fair, Bruce probably has **** all else to do now apart from troll VT.

I'm stunned anyone can have witnessed the dross we played under Bruce, watched him squander resources, embed us deeply in the shit with his transfer business, and still defend him, and start having a dig at the new guy who has us playing football within weeks of taking over. While still being dragged down by the inadequacies of the previous manager's squad.

 

Will be interesting to see how long Smith continues to get this free pass from Villatalkers. 

Anything good is down to Smith, anything bad down to Bruce?

That’s a no-lose situation for him for sure.

[TRO]

17 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

One thing that seems to be happening - and I'm happy to be corrected on this - is that sometimes the full backs are so keen to get forward that Chester, Axel and Hourihane/Whelan/whoever in the centre can only pass the ball in a straight line into the midfield, and more often than not it's being picked off by the opposition.

On Sunday and again tonight, there were several occasions where the central 3 had no wide options without going up and over.  The full-backs need to be holding their run until we're further up the field.

its a good point that.

[sne]

12 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Will be interesting to see how long Smith continues to get this free pass from Villatalkers. 

Anything good is down to Smith, anything bad down to Bruce?

That’s a no-lose situation for him for sure.

Take your pick.

Transfer window.

Pre- season.

Full season.

Get his own backroom team in.

That one player we are going to build everything around.

Bruce had tall those excuses made for him from what I remember.

For me Bruce had until the first January window before I started to demand things from him as with Smith now not having a defense, Bruce didn't have a midfield when he first came in.

If Villa tanks as bad as under Smith as we did under Bruce during that January period then I will certainly be critical of Smith.

I'll say this thou the transformation we've already seen under the short time Smith has been here is more than I dared hope for.

still a long way to go thou.

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by sne

[villalad21]

I will always say that i won't judge him this season as this is pretty much a Steve Bruce team.

Next season will be interesting.