Dean Smith

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, Zatman said:

442 is a dead formation. You get overrun in midfield

We dont have quality for 2 strikers anyway

its not dead, no formation is, not used much granted.

You need 2 top quality centre mids and wingers to make it effective.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Don't disagreeing with that and i'm not suggesting we should play 4-4-2

I'd prefer Smith to stick with 4-3-3. Or probably better 4-2-3-1 so we can move Jack into the number 10 role.

In my humble opinion, we don't have a good enough 2 to make that work, effectively....on current form, I wouldn't know what formation to suggest.

we could pick holes in any one.

Edited June 28, 2020 by TRO

[DaveAV1]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

its not dead, no formation is, not used much granted.

You need 2 top quality centre mids and wingers to make it effective.

Formations trend in and out. The same with nationalities of managers. 10 years or so ago almost half of the PL managers were Scottish, no nobody want a Scottish manager. One thing that never goes out of fashion though is winning. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Formations trend in and out. The same with nationalities of managers. 10 years or so ago almost half of the PL managers were Scottish, no nobody want a Scottish manager. One thing that never goes out of fashion though is winning. 

Once again.....spot on Dave.

They all follow the top managers.....but the top managers have the top players to play around with formations.

it tickled me once when Derek Dougan was asked about formations he said " Its 1-10 isn't it"......during the game formation morph with the dynamics of the play anyway.

Edited June 28, 2020 by TRO

[Brentfordnylons]

Looking from the outside I’m gutted how things have turned out for Villa and Dean this season.Recruitment is the most important area that you have to get right and Dean along with Richard were supplied with excellent well scouted players with potential to succeed at championship level.Your recruitment has been disappointing to say the least and the pressure should be on the DoFs future more so than the coaches apart from Konsa and Engels I doubt if the coaches had scouted or suggested many of the other signings although Drinkwater was a dreadful signing. I never understood the JT appointment and not Deans decision think an experienced PL coach would have been better.Tough ask but still think there are 4 winnable games left till end of season.

 

[villalad21]

7 minutes ago, Brentfordnylons said:

Looking from the outside I’m gutted how things have turned out for Villa and Dean this season.Recruitment is the most important area that you have to get right and Dean along with Richard were supplied with excellent well scouted players with potential to succeed at championship level.Your recruitment has been disappointing to say the least and the pressure should be on the DoFs future more so than the coaches apart from Konsa and Engels I doubt if the coaches had scouted or suggested many of the other signings although Drinkwater was a dreadful signing. I never understood the JT appointment and not Deans decision think an experienced PL coach would have been better.Tough ask but still think there are 4 winnable games left till end of season.

 

I don't remember too many Brentford fans getting very upset for Smith leaving. And by the looks of things seems like Frank has finally solved Smith's defensive issues and improved Brentford a lot.

Smith isn't a Premier League level coach. Never will be.

Edited June 28, 2020 by villalad21

[Eastie]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

In my humble opinion, we don't have a good enough 2 to make that work, effectively....on current form, I wouldn't know what formation to suggest.

we could pick holes in any one.

The problem is there are problems in all areas of the pitch ,  the keeper is a calamity , the defence far too easily dragged out of position and always liable to make howlers , the midfield is powder puff and lacks both steel and creativity , the strikers are goal shy and the wide men couldn’t deliver a letter ,  disjointed and devoid of any belief , a poor poor team with a coach to match . 

[Laughable Chimp]

4 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Interesting to me

I'd agree. I think we've deserved more than the 2 points we have so far since the restart. 

Its minor, but for me there are improvements from before the lockdown.

I think this again shows how hampered we have been by individual errors in both attack and defence. But its no real surprise. I think we have 1 defender who would start for our rivals and no attackers that would. 

A bit salty because I did a very similar analysis earlier in this thread and no one commented....

Anyway,

1-We had the better chances against Sheffield but we were extremely lucky not to lose that match. Normally these two things don't go together but normally, you don't get a goal line technology failure. We were not unlucky to only have gained 1 point from the match. I mean, its not like we completely battered them either.

2-Their stats for the Chelsea game are wrong. Here's the real one.

https://understat.com/team/Aston_Villa/2019

I know their stats for xG come from the same sources too because every other stat listed above lines up, this is only game with a discrepancy. In reality, it was much closer between Villa and Chelsea.

And I should add a big reason why we still had superior xG to Chelsea was because they counted both of Hause's chances. The one that was parried and his eventual goal. Since both were so close to the goal, both massively boosted our xG. I think this skews the data into thinking we had better chances than we actually had. Imagine if Hause actually scored from his first shot there, he would never have taken that second shot and so our xG would've been considerably lower. Would you still say that we had worse chances in this alternative scenario compared to what actually happened? I don't think so.

3-When I did this analysis earlier, I didn't exactly conclude it was bad luck although it certainly could be. I just think we've been crap at finishing since coming back, which imo is an equally valid interpretation of the data.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Laughable Chimp

[VillaCas]

I understand and share the disappointment, but for me the lack of quality in the squad is the main issue

We are hardly better than last season - We spent a huge chunk of the budget signing loanees and another huge chunk bringing in not-quite-replacements for Tammy and Axel - at that stage we had spent £80-90m(?) and were worse 

We then needed to swap experience (Hutton, Adomah, Jedi) for potential but Nakamba, Trez, Targett etc are just not PL ready. Luiz has shone in the last few games but he also has disappointed most of the season. Add a few more makeweights like Hause, Samatta etc and for me this is not a team that is going to do anything more than struggle

Surely no one can think that that squad wasn’t going to struggle?

If Smith was the driving force behind the recruitment then he should go but the fact that the ownership are still backing him signals to me that they realise he is working with poor materials. 

My feeling is that if we’d gone with Smiths choices Benrama, Maupay Phillips etc we would be much better off

If the owners splash the cash to bring in a Rafa-level or better manager I wouldn’t complain but if not personally I would stay with Smith 

Whatever happens it is absolutely vital that this summers transfer activity is a level above what has gone before

[The_Rev]

46 minutes ago, Zatman said:

442 is a dead formation. You get overrun in midfield

We dont have quality for 2 strikers anyway

 

Well, that's a sweeping generalisation.  Leicester won the league playing 4-4-2, Atletico Madrid play 4-4-2.  Burnley play 4-4-2.  You could start getting fancy and say that Liverpool play 4-4-2, it's not a flat midfield but Firmino usually has two strikers in front of him.   It's certainly more of a 4-4-2 diamond than it is a 4-3-3 that a lot of on screen graphics seem to label it as.  In theory we could do something similar with Jack playing where Firmino does. 

The second point is right though, the squad wasn't built that way.  We've got no pace, if everybody is fit then we've got a big target man up front.  With the current squad as it is we've got a big target man who doesn't score goals up front.  It seems to me everything was built to get goals from midfield and they've just not delivered.  It's too late to make huge changes now, we could get away with it in the Championship because we had some of the best individual players in the division and they were winning games for us with moments of magic. We haven't had that luxury in the Premier League because every other side has better individuals than we do. 

My big criticism of Smith is that he doesn't appear to have figured out how to handle having a weaker squad than the opposition do. Admittedly it's a tough problem to solve but every post game interview just praises the opposition. If he's like that with the players in private then I wonder if a few of them just think he's an idiot.   I'm pretty sure we're going to get relegated. Maybe Smith is the man to get us out of the Championship but he doesn't strike me as  a man for the Premier League.  I'd certainly sack him if we do somehow manage to survive because I can't see how we'd do any better in the Premier League next season with his ideas. 

[Brentfordnylons]

30 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

I don't remember too many Brentford fans getting very upset for Smith leaving. And by the looks of things seems like Frank has finally solved Smith's defensive issues and improved Brentford a lot.

Smith isn't a Premier League level coach. Never will be.

Smith leaving us for Villa was always going to be a none brainer and most fans understood that.Yes we have finally sorted out our defence and Inproved the team in general due to our biggest ever spend in the summer transfer window.

[CosmicVillan]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Smith isn't a Premier League level coach. Never will be.

That's okay , we won't need one next season

Edited June 28, 2020 by CosmicVillan

[TRO]

55 minutes ago, Eastie said:

The problem is there are problems in all areas of the pitch ,  the keeper is a calamity , the defence far too easily dragged out of position and always liable to make howlers , the midfield is powder puff and lacks both steel and creativity , the strikers are goal shy and the wide men couldn’t deliver a letter ,  disjointed and devoid of any belief , a poor poor team with a coach to match . 

If you made that appraisal at any club in the country....their fans would have only one conclusion and you know the answer to that.

The club are just not ready for an alternative.

Edited June 28, 2020 by TRO

[mykeyb]

2 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

Yesterday was a perfect example.  We were on top and Wolves made adjustments in positioning and the way they are going to attack. From there on in we failed to adjust and eventually lost. 

I watched the Leeds V Fulham game yesterday and Leeds were completely overrun in the first half and Biesla made changes at half time of both personnel and formation and they won 3-0. 

He didn't wait until 65-70 minutes and then make like for like substitutions and keep his fingers crossed that we didn't concede before then which appears to be Dean's defacto fallback position.

Our next managers needs to be able to see issues in a game and react accordingly

 

[TRO]

42 minutes ago, The_Rev said:

 

Well, that's a sweeping generalisation.  Leicester won the league playing 4-4-2, Atletico Madrid play 4-4-2.  Burnley play 4-4-2.  You could start getting fancy and say that Liverpool play 4-4-2, it's not a flat midfield but Firmino usually has two strikers in front of him.   It's certainly more of a 4-4-2 diamond than it is a 4-3-3 that a lot of on screen graphics seem to label it as.  In theory we could do something similar with Jack playing where Firmino does. 

The second point is right though, the squad wasn't built that way.  We've got no pace, if everybody is fit then we've got a big target man up front.  With the current squad as it is we've got a big target man who doesn't score goals up front.  It seems to me everything was built to get goals from midfield and they've just not delivered.  It's too late to make huge changes now, we could get away with it in the Championship because we had some of the best individual players in the division and they were winning games for us with moments of magic. We haven't had that luxury in the Premier League because every other side has better individuals than we do. 

My big criticism of Smith is that he doesn't appear to have figured out how to handle having a weaker squad than the opposition do. Admittedly it's a tough problem to solve but every post game interview just praises the opposition. If he's like that with the players in private then I wonder if a few of them just think he's an idiot.   I'm pretty sure we're going to get relegated. Maybe Smith is the man to get us out of the Championship but he doesn't strike me as  a man for the Premier League.  I'd certainly sack him if we do somehow manage to survive because I can't see how we'd do any better in the Premier League next season with his ideas. 

Good food for thought....like it.

[pintpotvilla]

45 minutes ago, Brentfordnylons said:

Smith leaving us for Villa was always going to be a none brainer and most fans understood that.Yes we have finally sorted out our defence and Inproved the team in general due to our biggest ever spend in the summer transfer window.

Really hope Brentford come up this season, they really deserve to, a really well run club that plays good football.

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Laughable Chimp said:

A bit salty because I did a very similar analysis earlier in this thread and no one commented....

Anyway,

1-We had the better chances against Sheffield but we were extremely lucky not to lose that match. Normally these two things don't go together but normally, you don't get a goal line technology failure. We were not unlucky to only have gained 1 point from the match. I mean, its not like we completely battered them either.

2-Their stats for the Chelsea game are wrong. Here's the real one.

https://understat.com/team/Aston_Villa/2019

I know their stats for xG come from the same sources too because every other stat listed above lines up, this is only game with a discrepancy. In reality, it was much closer between Villa and Chelsea.

And I should add a big reason why we still had superior xG to Chelsea was because they counted both of Hause's chances. The one that was parried and his eventual goal. Since both were so close to the goal, both massively boosted our xG. I think this skews the data into thinking we had better chances than we actually had. Imagine if Hause actually scored from his first shot there, he would never have taken that second shot and so our xG would've been considerably lower. Would you still say that we had worse chances in this alternative scenario compared to what actually happened? I don't think so.

3-When I did this analysis earlier, I didn't exactly conclude it was bad luck although it certainly could be. I just think we've been crap at finishing since coming back, which imo is an equally valid interpretation of the data.

 

 

Thanks for that. 

Yeah I don't agree with it being unlucky. I think the analysis shows our lack of quality. We don't take chances and we concede goals too easily. 

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, Eastie said:

The problem is there are problems in all areas of the pitch ,  the keeper is a calamity , the defence far too easily dragged out of position and always liable to make howlers , the midfield is powder puff and lacks both steel and creativity , the strikers are goal shy and the wide men couldn’t deliver a letter ,  disjointed and devoid of any belief , a poor poor team with a coach to match . 

In a nutshell. 

[pintpotvilla]

1 hour ago, Eastie said:

The problem is there are problems in all areas of the pitch ,  the keeper is a calamity , the defence far too easily dragged out of position and always liable to make howlers , the midfield is powder puff and lacks both steel and creativity , the strikers are goal shy and the wide men couldn’t deliver a letter ,  disjointed and devoid of any belief , a poor poor team with a coach to match . 

But apart from that!!

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, Brentfordnylons said:

Looking from the outside I’m gutted how things have turned out for Villa and Dean this season.Recruitment is the most important area that you have to get right and Dean along with Richard were supplied with excellent well scouted players with potential to succeed at championship level.Your recruitment has been disappointing to say the least and the pressure should be on the DoFs future more so than the coaches apart from Konsa and Engels I doubt if the coaches had scouted or suggested many of the other signings although Drinkwater was a dreadful signing. I never understood the JT appointment and not Deans decision think an experienced PL coach would have been better.Tough ask but still think there are 4 winnable games left till end of season.

 

Apparently Rafa has said,  talking about Suso when they were at Valencia, “I used to ask for a couch and he would buy me a lamp. I’d just have to put up with it.”

Deano has come from an excellent scouting/recruitment  system to a shambolic mess. He’s not perfect and has made mistakes, but if we don’t replace the recruitment team, we could get Klopp and Pep in and we’d still be buggered. 

If we replace Dean with JT the owners are as clueless as Randy was. Money without a proper set up is a waste of time.