Dean Smith

[Johnnyp]

53 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Interesting to me

I'd agree. I think we've deserved more than the 2 points we have so far since the restart. 

Its minor, but for me there are improvements from before the lockdown.

I think this again shows how hampered we have been by individual errors in both attack and defence. But its no real surprise. I think we have 1 defender who would start for our rivals and no attackers that would. 

This is seriously clutching. You do realise Sheffield United 100% should of left VP with 3 points, yes ? Chelsea dominated us. Point fair result against Newcastle. Poor game yesterday. They scored. We created nothing. 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, lexicon said:

We've burned through 13 managers in that time and the only thing of any note was being playoff champs under Smith last season. 

He showed last season that with a comparatively good squad in the league, he can get results. I personally don't think that our squad is very good and when you add to the fact that it's not a settled squad, we're about where we should be. I'm not going to demand for someone to be sacked for not exceeding expectations and I don't think that getting relegated this time round will be as much of a disaster as some seem to think. 

May i remind you, that we burned through loads of managers prior to Ron Saunders....but we eventually got it right.

He changed it ......not because he had loads of money, but because he had the ability to improve every player who we recruited and he built a balanced team who had work rate as a cornerstone of everything they did, that included a combative spirit that was in harmony throughout the whole team......he first made us hard to beat.

Central to any teams success, is the manager.......we have just been poor at signing the right ones.

Edited June 28, 2020 by TRO

[Johnnyp]

49 minutes ago, Herman22 said:

The stats are interesting. I really think we should have beaten Sheffield but all anyone talks about is the goal line tech. 

A few mins of madness lost us the Chelsea game and Wolves and Newcastle probably had 4 shots on target between them. 

I think we will spring a surprise soon. Just not sure it will be enough. 

Probably on account of it being kind of a big thing. They scored a goal. We didn't. Therefore should of won.

[M_Afro]

If you look at the number of times we have taken the lead and failed to win, it points to a manager who is not as effective at changing tactics during a game as his opponent is. He gets out thought every week.

[villalad21]

27 minutes ago, joshharris12 said:

The stats are bull as we are still 19th!

The table don't lie.

We are 19th because that's where we deserve to be.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said:

That is exactly what the problem has been. Stability with the wrong manager isn’t stability at all. It’s the recruitment of managers that has been poor. Dean has had a tough job, we all know the circumstances and injuries have also not been kind to us. The problem is he hasn’t really ever looked like he Is able to overcome the problems. Yes it’s not all his fault, recruitment last summer was awful and fingers can be pointed in many directions when apportioning blame for that. Including I must say Wes Eden’s, who seems pretty keen on statistical analysis. It has a place, but I don’t believe can be the be all and end all. 

I think Dean is frustrated behind closed doors at the players he’s got and the players we didn’t get. However he’s loyal and has kept his mouth shut. The problem is he’s not strong enough or experienced enough to have said to those making decisions around him, no that won’t work, we need to do that. To manage a big club with big expectations you need a pretty big ego, and I’m not sure Dean has that. It may have been better for him if we hadn’t been promoted and he’d had the chance to build a strong team at Championship level. Then the team and him could have all grown together and that vital experience and the self confidence it brings would have had time to develop. The Premiership doesn’t give you time or chances to find your feet. 

Very good post Dave....spot on.

 

[Mantis]

28 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

If you look at the number of times we have taken the lead and failed to win, it points to a manager who is not as effective at changing tactics during a game as his opponent is. He gets out thought every week.

He's also too slow to make changes when it's 0-0 as well. He's simply not proactive.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Mantis

[TRO]

We will stay with Dean and we must accept the consequences of that call.

in my opinion, the chairman has now shifted the responsibility from Dean to himself.

i hope he knows that?.....maybe that was exactly his plan, it could be a master stroke, we will see.

Edited June 28, 2020 by TRO

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Interesting to me

I'd agree. I think we've deserved more than the 2 points we have so far since the restart. 

Its minor, but for me there are improvements from before the lockdown.

I think this again shows how hampered we have been by individual errors in both attack and defence. But its no real surprise. I think we have 1 defender who would start for our rivals and no attackers that would. 

This is all very bizarre but the obvious point to make is that we HAVEN’T climbed from 19th to 17th since the restart so this statement is just unarguably wrong. The best you can say is we have drawn level on points with 17th-18th. We have however remained on 19th, have played one game more and have a goal difference of -3 worse than the team above us. 

The idea that a tweeter Called Villa Analytics is talking about the team being “unlucky” is also odd. I don’t think that statistical analysis deals in luck, good or bad.

[Adam2003]

3 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

This is all very bizarre but the obvious point to make is that we HAVEN’T climbed from 19th to 17th since the restart so this statement is just unarguably wrong. The best you can say is we have drawn level on points with 17th-18th. We have however remained on 19th, have played one game more and have a goal difference of -3 worse than the team above us. 

The idea that a tweeter Called Villa Analytics is talking about the team being “unlucky” is also odd. I don’t think that statistical analysis deals in luck, good or bad.

Off topic but there’s a book called ‘Knock On Wood’ by a statistician exploring luck’s role in every day life that’s a fun read on your latter point.

[Phil Silvers]

55 minutes ago, TRO said:

May i remind you, that we burned through loads of managers prior to Ron Saunders....but we eventually got it right.

He changed it ......not because he had loads of money, but because he had the ability to improve every player who we recruited and he built a balanced team who had work rate as a cornerstone of everything they did, that included a combative spirit that was in harmony throught the whole team......he first made us hard to beat.

Central to any teams success, is the manager.......we have just been poor at signing the right ones.

This has been the only constant denominator in it always and we probably have always had the players to be mid prem for years but just no one to make them a unit, 3/4 tranfsers windows during prem safety of us under a top manager would see us where we want to be. 

[Eastie]

We spend And waste so many Tens of millions on poor players , if only we spent anywhere near that on getting a top manager then the rest would fall into place , get the right man In and back him The more I look at things the more jardim appeals to me , 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Eastie

[Nabby]

3 minutes ago, Eastie said:

We spend And waste so many Tens of millions on poor players , if only we spent anywhere near that on getting a top manager then the rest would fall into place , get the right man In and back him The more I look at things the more jardim appeals to me , 

It's amazing how many ex players I see when watching other games , our turn over of players is crazy 

In wasted cash it must be around 50  mil in wages and fee's on Hogan  , Kodjia and McCormack in the last 3 years with a return of next to nothing ( Kodjia did score some important goal and Hogan we may get something back on ) 

Apparantly we missed out on Cahill as didnt want to give him a 2 year deal  , currently he will be playing PL football next season and we won't ..

[imavillan]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

We will stay with Dean and we must accept the consequences of that call.

in my opinion, the chairman has now shifted the responsibility from Dean to himself.

i hope he knows that?.....maybe that was exactly his plan, it could be a master stroke, we will see.

As much as i would like to see a change, i think you are right, we will stick with Dean regardless. You don't give a manager a new 4 year contract and the dump him.

One thing for sure is we are going to be in the Championship next season. Dean may well be the man to get us back in the Prem at the first time of asking who knows. But what i do know, in my mind anyhow, is he is not the right person to take us forward to where we all want to be.

Dean is a nice guy. One day he will get the sack, it's inevitable, and when he does he will probably get another crack at management at the likes of Preston, Huddersfield, Reading etc (no disrespect). It's unlikely he'll be offered a job at any of the top Prem clubs.

I have said previousley all of the top clubs have top managers. Thats one of the reasons they are top clubs. All of the new money clubs were ruthless in getting top managers. If it did'nt work they were shipped out and replaced.

Until we get a high claibre manager that can come in with a blueprint we will be forever on the merry-go-round.

Whenever it is, the next managerial appointment will define our owners intent and path. It is probably our most crucial decision in ages.

 

[TRO]

57 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

This has been the only constant denominator in it always and we probably have always had the players to be mid prem for years but just no one to make them a unit, 3/4 tranfsers windows during prem safety of us under a top manager would see us where we want to be. 

The thing is really good managers, spot the early signs, way before they get in to things like decline or losing the dressing room.....They spot the subtle flaws and get on top of them.

you lose the dressing room, when too many things go unchecked or wrong decisions being made, its not instantaneous, its gradual....and our decline this season has been gradual......we are just sleep walking in to relegation.

We have come back from lock down and the haemoragging of goals has stopped....but the lack of pressing and closing down is still there, the losing of aerial duels in midfield is still there, the confusion at throw-ins and failure to keep the ball is still there.

It seems teams playing us know just how much to do to win.

[Zatman]

Lambert was sacked about 6 months after his new contract 

[zab6359]

8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Thing is Smiths probably the right manager for the championship. It’s a tough call for the club at this stage.

But absolutely zero point in keeping him if the aim is to get straight back into the PL. It's tough as Championship is probably his level and with a decent enough side he can do well he's proven that. But he has been a huge disappointment in the PL for me, well and truly out of his depth.

[sne]

5 minutes ago, imavillan said:

 

Whenever it is, the next managerial appointment will define our owners intent and path. It is probably our most crucial decision in ages.

 

Sacking Bruce and getting Smith in ended up saving our finances, at least temporarily. That promotion saved the club.

That decision was pretty massive. I'd be delighted if the next appointment had a similar level impact.

Obviously I'd want our results in the PL to improve under whoever is the next manager. Hopefully we'll not have to take the detour via the Championship but it's seems more or less a certainty.

[TRO]

10 hours ago, imavillan said:

As much as i would like to see a change, i think you are right, we will stick with Dean regardless. You don't give a manager a new 4 year contract and the dump him.

One thing for sure is we are going to be in the Championship next season. Dean may well be the man to get us back in the Prem at the first time of asking who knows. But what i do know, in my mind anyhow, is he is not the right person to take us forward to where we all want to be.

Dean is a nice guy. One day he will get the sack, it's inevitable, and when he does he will probably get another crack at management at the likes of Preston, Huddersfield, Reading etc (no disrespect). It's unlikely he'll be offered a job at any of the top Prem clubs.

I have said previousley all of the top clubs have top managers. Thats one of the reasons they are top clubs. All of the new money clubs were ruthless in getting top managers. If it did'nt work they were shipped out and replaced.

Until we get a high claibre manager that can come in with a blueprint we will be forever on the merry-go-round.

Whenever it is, the next managerial appointment will define our owners intent and path. It is probably our most crucial decision in ages.

 

spot on.

I don't think any of us want to see Dean Sacked.....blimey I didn't want Bruce sacked, but at the time it was right.

However, Liverpool, would never in a million years be putting up with this.....so when envy or jealousy kicks in we need to remind ourselves the sacrifices they make in pursuit of success, they are ruthless, ask Brendan Rogers....they don't need to be even close to relegation to be be twitchy, they see the signs very early.

We need to understand what we are now and I guess accept it......but when we hear all the rhetoric about ambition, treat it with the contempt it deserves....like don't tell me, show me. 

Edited June 28, 2020 by TRO

[Nabby]

9 minutes ago, sne said:

Sacking Bruce and getting Smith in ended up saving our finances, at least temporarily. That promotion saved the club.

That decision was pretty massive. I'd be delighted if the next appointment had a similar level impact.

Obviously I'd want our results in the PL to improve under whoever is the next manager. Hopefully we'll not have to take the detour via the Championship but it's seems more or less a certainty.

Bruce , what ever you think of him has great success getting out of the league and had gotten us to a play off final but he had lost the team by the time we sacked him , I feel Dean is in a similar position now