Dean Smith

[Rolta]

4 hours ago, villalad21 said:

But surely they have "gelled" more now since the opening game? Yet we look a worse side now.

You would think we would see improvements over time, not getting worse.

There are definite angles to use, but this just seems way too simplistic. Reality is more complicated.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Rolta

[foreveryoung]

We were getting worse because we were found out, play everything through jack.

He then tried something different and asked to much of the players he has at his disposal. Like I have said, Smith tries to play Man City football with Championship players it's not gonna work, we need to do the basics, but now it's too late, he has dropped us well in the doo doo, an either way i cannot see us getting out of it.

[KentVillan]

6 hours ago, Only2McInallys said:

A lot of points here I would agree with.To get into automatic promotion spots you need to win games,getting draws is a waste of time .This why Bruce with us and Pulis with Middlesbororugh failed.

But keeping things tight at the back ,being good at set pieces ,grinding out draws are essential for premier league survival.This is why Newcastle appear to be safe and Bruce style football works.

Smith needs to change some of his philosophy.When we lose the ball in attack teams seem to get to our defence with ease.

.Our problems at set pieces are inexcusable(I believe we have conceded more from corners than any other team)You would think this could sorted out on the training ground.

The question is can he make us stronger defensively without too much affect on our attacking play.

 

All fair points. Think naivety has cost us a few times this season. Some of that has been from Smith, some just a natural consequence of the players being young and new to the league.

I still believe our biggest mistake was to not bring in a quality experienced midfielder in the summer (on loan if necessary). I always look at that Cambiasso to Leicester move as a great example of how you can add a bit of quality to a promoted side. Moutinho to Wolves was similar.

Nothing wrong with a young squad, but you need a couple of wise heads I think. Heaton isn’t enough.

[sir_gary_cahill]

2 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

All fair points. Think naivety has cost us a few times this season. Some of that has been from Smith, some just a natural consequence of the players being young and new to the league.

I still believe our biggest mistake was to not bring in a quality experienced midfielder in the summer (on loan if necessary). I always look at that Cambiasso to Leicester move as a great example of how you can add a bit of quality to a promoted side. Moutinho to Wolves was similar.

Nothing wrong with a young squad, but you need a couple of wise heads I think. Heaton isn’t enough.

I think Drinkwater was supposed to be that player

[KentVillan]

26 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

I think Drinkwater was supposed to be that player

Was too late in January, and much harder to find the right player. Cambiasso and Moutinho had multiple league titles, European trophies, loads of international caps, etc. I'm talking about that type of player.

I think someone like that would have been available if we hadn't completely ruled out loan signings and older players. That was a mistake on Purslow's part. His motivation was sensible, but he took it too far.

[sir_gary_cahill]

1 minute ago, KentVillan said:

Was too late in January, and much harder to find the right player. Cambiasso and Moutinho had multiple league titles, European trophies, loads of international caps, etc. I'm talking about that type of player.

I think someone like that would have been available if we hadn't completely ruled out loan signings and older players. That was a mistake on Purslow's part. His motivation was sensible, but he took it too far.

It is hard to attract that kind of player in our current predicament. Purslow should keep his mouth shut, it doesn’t help anyone 

[KentVillan]

1 minute ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

It is hard to attract that kind of player in our current predicament. Purslow should keep his mouth shut, it doesn’t help anyone 

We weren't in a "predicament" last summer. Attracting a fading (but still useful) pro for a final pay day in the Premier League isn't especially hard. Loads of promoted clubs have done it. There must have been options. It would have been good for the dressing room to have a proper success story there to set the right tone, even if he only lasted 1 or 2 seasons.

[sir_gary_cahill]

22 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

We weren't in a "predicament" last summer. Attracting a fading (but still useful) pro for a final pay day in the Premier League isn't especially hard. Loads of promoted clubs have done it. There must have been options. It would have been good for the dressing room to have a proper success story there to set the right tone, even if he only lasted 1 or 2 seasons.

I think you are correct but very few experienced professionals are going to go to a newly promoted side. They usually want an easy ride

[ozvilla28]

No confidence in him at all that last month looked like the players were gone to that being the Chelsea game make or breake.Said it so many times not blaming Smith 100% some poor signings etc ,but he can't do the basics right with this team at minimum.

[Only2McInallys]

12 hours ago, KentVillan said:

We weren't in a "predicament" last summer. Attracting a fading (but still useful) pro for a final pay day in the Premier League isn't especially hard. Loads of promoted clubs have done it. There must have been options. It would have been good for the dressing room to have a proper success story there to set the right tone, even if he only lasted 1 or 2 seasons.

Agree.I think our transfer policy became obsessed with having sell on value and any player in their late 20s or early 30s was not considered because you wouldn’t get the transfer fee back.

Purslow also said he was against loan players because it was bad business to improve another teams player.If you look at Tuanzebe he was brilliant for us and helped us to get promoted but yes we improved him and his value went up but we gained more through promotion.

It reminds me a bit like when we were relegated in 2016.We signed  a lot of good players but not a team.They were all bought with sell on value in mind and many have gone on to better things but what we needed the. like we need now is an experienced,strong ,physical presence,who can hold onto the ball in the middle of the park.

[VillaChris]

14 hours ago, KentVillan said:

All fair points. Think naivety has cost us a few times this season. Some of that has been from Smith, some just a natural consequence of the players being young and new to the league.

I still believe our biggest mistake was to not bring in a quality experienced midfielder in the summer (on loan if necessary). I always look at that Cambiasso to Leicester move as a great example of how you can add a bit of quality to a promoted side. Moutinho to Wolves was similar.

Nothing wrong with a young squad, but you need a couple of wise heads I think. Heaton isn’t enough.

We can still get that type next summer. My bigger question is would the board actually sanction it if DS came and ask for 2-3 of those type. Not the cheap loan ones like Drinky and Reina but players we might have to spend nearly 10m on with little re sale value.

[VillaChris]

14 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

It is hard to attract that kind of player in our current predicament. Purslow should keep his mouth shut, it doesn’t help anyone 

Leicester were a newly promoted club when they signed Cambiasso. Indeed so were Wolves with Moutinho. Sheffield United also signed Phil Jagielka last summer. Now he hasn't played much but I imagine he's been great for tips around the dressing room and training pitch on life in the premier league, Drinkwater's probably giving our guys a heads up on the best clubs in Manchester to go out to.

We need to start setting our sights a little higher. We stay up by whatever means, we just join the group of teams trying to get into europe with big fanbase and great facilities. That sell to players wouldn't be much different to what Newcastle are doing other than the bigger wages they can offer now of course but then we wouldn't be going for exactly the type they'll be in for now.

Edited May 10, 2020 by VillaChris

[villalad21]

19 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

We were getting worse because we were found out, play everything through jack.

I think you are right.

Press us from the front and our limited defenders will make errors. Smith needs to adapt and tell his defenders to hoof it, they aren't ball playing defenders. None of them are.

And as you say. Man mark Jack and we got nothing.

Edited May 10, 2020 by villalad21

[sne]

8 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

I think you are right.

Press us from the front and our limited defenders will make errors. Smith needs to adapt and tell his defenders to hoof it, they aren't ball playing defenders. None of them are.

And as you say. Man mark Jack and we got nothing.

Hoof it is probably not the way to go as we have a pretty short side and tend to lose a lot of aerial challenges.

Still think we should try and keep possession and play it out of defense but we need to be smarter about it and take less unnecessary risks (looking at you Mings).

It's absolutely OK to hoof it when under pressure but with better movement without the ball and a more structured team who all knows what their teammates are supposed to do depending on situations we should be able to get much better at keeping the ball and create trouble for the opponents rather than for ourselves.

I thought we would struggle this season but I didn't think we'd look this bad doing it. If that makes sense  

[KentVillan]

The dilemma we have is that Jack really belongs in a possession football side. We saw that in the Championship last year, and we’ve seen that in occasional spells in the Premier League this season. He’s not quick enough to be a danger on the counter, or feeding off knock downs from a big striker.

If we wanted to play a more defensive, route one style we needed to sign a quick striker. Had we bought Samatta last summer as well as Wesley, it’s quite possible we’d be high and dry already.

I think part of the problem was psychologically the number of players that we needed to sign sounded like too many - the whole “doing a Fulham” thing - and the club management balked at bringing in that extra one or two players that we clearly needed. Even if Wesley had been world class, we were still relying on Davis and Kodjia as back up. That would be a tough gig for any coach, playing any style.

[DaveAV1]

On 08/05/2020 at 18:11, TRO said:

defensive capability as a team

That to me is the crucial point. We’re a soft touch all over the pitch. On our day when everything clicks we can be very good. But we lack that grit to win when we’re average. The odd draw from a loss or win from a draw would make all the difference. 

I think we can in part blame coaching but equally personnel. We need one or two battlers who know how to get something out of nothing. All teams that do well, at any level, have a player or two like that. 

[villalad21]

On 10/05/2020 at 15:54, sne said:

till think we should try and keep possession and play it out of defense but we need to be smarter about it and take less unnecessary risks (looking at you Mings).

How many times have our defenders f***ed it up while playing out from the back?

Far too many. Cost us. Most of the times i'm thinking "why don't you just clear it?!!"

[TRO]

6 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

That to me is the crucial point. We’re a soft touch all over the pitch. On our day when everything clicks we can be very good. But we lack that grit to win when we’re average. The odd draw from a loss or win from a draw would make all the difference. 

I think we can in part blame coaching but equally personnel. We need one or two battlers who know how to get something out of nothing. All teams that do well, at any level, have a player or two like that. 

But we don't seem interested in signing players like that....thats where the problem lies.

We will reap what we sow.

[TRO]

6 hours ago, villalad21 said:

How many times have our defenders f***ed it up while playing out from the back?

Far too many. Cost us. Most of the times i'm thinking "why don't you just clear it?!!"

But even that just results in just giving the ball away.....we just have to be better.

 

[VillaChris]

On 10/05/2020 at 16:14, KentVillan said:

The dilemma we have is that Jack really belongs in a possession football side. We saw that in the Championship last year, and we’ve seen that in occasional spells in the Premier League this season. He’s not quick enough to be a danger on the counter, or feeding off knock downs from a big striker.

If we wanted to play a more defensive, route one style we needed to sign a quick striker. Had we bought Samatta last summer as well as Wesley, it’s quite possible we’d be high and dry already.

I think part of the problem was psychologically the number of players that we needed to sign sounded like too many - the whole “doing a Fulham” thing - and the club management balked at bringing in that extra one or two players that we clearly needed. Even if Wesley had been world class, we were still relying on Davis and Kodjia as back up. That would be a tough gig for any coach, playing any style.

It was certainly muddled thinking. Signing just one new forward yet four new CBs?! Makes how bad we've been defensively since December even worse. Really don't understand why in that four we didn't get one experienced CB once we realised Chester's body couldn't cope with top level football anymore.