sir_gary_cahill Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 1 minute ago, TRO said: So after he got his signings in......why did that improvedf work not carry over to the Premier League. just a question. There’s a massive gulf between the 2 divisions, that’s why I think 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Maybe because it’s a much tougher league? Just a thought. Then how are we supposed to stay in the Premier League and progress if the league is too "hard"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Its a point, sure, but a selective one. So after he got his signings in......why did that improved work not carry over to the Premier League? just a question. Answered in the other thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Too low of a sample size. The 10 game winning run was great but how likely is it to be repeated? especially from what we've witnessed this season? I think it's the perfect sample size. It gives a clear view of Villa before Smith's first window and Villa after Smith's first window. Your point was that he plays too openly to challenge for automatic promotion in the Championship. The stats say he doesn't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Just now, villalad21 said: Then how are we supposed to stay in the Premier League and progress if the league is too "hard"? Well firstly we let the season finish at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Ok but you’ve completely ignoring the fact we had the joint best defence in the league after Smith got his January signings in. Why are you ignoring this? Sure im still waiting from his response from the other day about how Brentford and the defence automatically improved when Smith left. 2 wins in the next 15 and leaking 3 goals or more in 4 games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 The league certainly haven't been too "hard" for the blades. They had a good defensive record last season. They have a good defensive record this season. A good defensive record isn't based on 10 games but a whole season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Just now, Okonokos said: I think it's the perfect sample size. It gives a clear view of Villa before Smith's first window and Villa after Smith's first window. Your point was that he plays too openly to challenge for automatic promotion in the Championship. The stats say he doesn't. Why do we get sucked in? I blame lockdown boredom but he still manages to wind me up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Okonokos said: I think it's the perfect sample size. It gives a clear view of Villa before Smith's first window and Villa after Smith's first window. Your point was that he plays too openly to challenge for automatic promotion in the Championship. The stats say he doesn't. He has to prove it over a full season. Don't know if Smith has had a season where his teams have conceded below a goal per game, but i highly doubt it. Would have to check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Okonokos said: Sometimes things don't work out perfectly. It's Smith's first season in the Premier League. Maybe if we do go down, keep him on and he brings us back up he will become a better manager for it. Look at Dyche at Burnley. Brought them up, got relegated in his first season and the kept him on. Hasn't done too badly since has he. Classic example of patience being required. Wilder has done an absolutely fantastic job, no question. Will be interesting to see if he can sustain it into a second season or will it be second season sydrome? Good questions. Personally, I think Dean plays too open.....despite me liking the style, much better than Bruces style.....but it is not effective.....I think the small sample of your example is fair. There are still a lot of ifs, buts and maybe's.....but I guess that can be applied to any side of the debate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: The league certainly haven't been too "hard" for the blades. They had a good defensive record last season. They have a good defensive record this season. A good defensive record isn't based on 10 games but a whole season. Always has to come to Sheffield United. If every promoted team managed that can you imagine the competition for top 6. It’s such a cop out to point to the one team that shocked everyone. Why don’t you compare us to the Championship champions instead? Nah, it won’t fit your argument. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Always has to come to Sheffield United. If every promoted team managed that can you imagine the competition for top 6. It’s such a cop out to point to the one team that shocked everyone. Why don’t you compare us to the Championship champions instead? Nah, it won’t fit your argument. No i'm not saying we should expect to do what they've done but i expected more than being the worst defensive side in the league. I think we all did and it's not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: He has to prove it over a full season. Don't know if Smith has had a season where his teams have conceded below a goal per game, but i highly doubt it. Would have to check So would you have preferred that he didn't get us promoted with the joint second best defence after his first window just so he could prove it over a full season in the Championship instead then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: He has to prove it over a full season. Don't know if Smith has had a season where his teams have conceded below a goal per game, but i highly doubt it. Would have to check How many teams in the Championship do you think have that on an average season? Hint, it's maybe 2-5 per season, max. No idea how it is in League 1 but I imagine it's about the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, sne said: How many teams in the Championship do you think have that on an average season? Hint, it's maybe 2-5 per season, max. No idea how it is in League 1 but I imagine it's about the same. But we're discussing what it takes to achieve automatic promotion. In most cases you got to have a strong defense. Unless you are incredibly strong in the attack and do what Norwich did. Edited May 8, 2020 by villalad21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Why do we get sucked in? I blame lockdown boredom but he still manages to wind me up. I think he makes salient points.....its just some of us find analysis of our play unpalatable. Why would you get wound up?....It started, i think by referring to open play.....we have the worst defensive record in the league, despite the defensive improvements in personnel....i think thats a fair observation. I watch the games ,every home game, which is our best venue and we are too open and too benevolent in our general play, without relying on the League table to confirm it to me. why can't we at least admit it. Edited May 8, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Okonokos said: So would you have preferred that he didn't get us promoted with the joint second best defence after his first window just so he could prove it over a full season in the Championship instead then? The rebuild would have happened regardless. Would i prefer us to do the rebuild in the Championship and achieve automatic promotion the next season with a strong defense or getting promoted through the play offs in the first season? I'd pick former. We would be better equipped i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Just now, villalad21 said: But we're discussing what it takes to achieve automatic promotion. In most cases you got to have a strong defense. Unless you are incredibly strong in the attack and do what Norwich did. Yeah I agree, but Smith has never managed a team that was expected to get promoted. Except for the season at Villa, where he did. Despite inheriting a team without a defense. No one would have expected those Brentford sides to concede less than 1 goal per game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, Zatman said: Sure im still waiting from his response from the other day about how Brentford and the defence automatically improved when Smith left. 2 wins in the next 15 and leaking 3 goals or more in 4 games. So you think Deans team this season has been defensively competent.....is that what you are saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, sne said: Yeah I agree, but Smith has never managed a team that was expected to get promoted. Except for the season at Villa, where he did. Despite inheriting a team without a defense. No one would have expected those Brentford sides to concede less than 1 goal per game. Sure but he's had money to spend on the defense now and we still are leaky as hell. If we lose Jack i think we can finish in the top 6 in the Championship, but i just can't see us achieving automatic promotion with this open style of football. We're not good enough offensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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