Dean Smith

[nick76]

26 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Wow. Just wow. 

Mind boggles!

[TRO]

1 hour ago, andym said:

And i suspect if he was 6ft 4 but still had exactly the same performances and stats, a different perception may be made by others...

Only 4 teams have conceded less goals this season (although we generally played less games than most, but even going on goals against per game, we are not 'poor'), so overall defensively we are doing a pretty decent job, and he is part of that.

I'm not sure there is really a prototype CDM these days, its not really a case anymore of stick your biggest, strongest (but slowest) midfield to screen the back 4. Plenty of different body types playing that position well, the main thing is that besides defensive responsibilities, all the good ones can 'play' and can get around the pitch as well, they don't just hack it away when they get it.

Luiz has that natural ability on the ball. No-one would say he doesn't need to work more on the defensive side of things, but he is only 22, and for that side of the game a bit of experience helps, particularly if you are going from a more attack minded to defensive player. The younger CDMs around who are already really good defensively are generally going the other way - starting out as defenders. But then they lack the ball playing part.

The question is whether he can and wants to further improve that side of his game. Prior to covid, he had definitely made massive strides compared to last season, so i see no reason at the moment why he can't improve further. Its a massive plus to the team if he can, even if he eventually he doesn't end up in a dedicated CDM role.

 

I would suspect that if he had ineffective stats, his size would be irrelevant...but if your point is that size, doesn't matter, I disagree....in certain positions it does matter......even Pep Guardiola conceded on one occasion, that he had too many small players...Ruben Dias has gone some way to address that too.

only 4 teams may have conceded less goals, we have kept 10 clean sheets, which is great....but when we concede, we usually ship c 3.....its the manner of doing so, not just the stats.....The overall goals against column is not an issue....but when we analyse the 5/6 teams we struggle against, it paints a different picture.....In the 8 games against Leeds,Brighton,Southampton,Burnley & West Ham where we found the going tough.....we have conceded 17 goals out of a total so far of 24 in 20 games.....That tells me there is a disparity and a clear indication of the teams we struggle against....that tells me there is an issue.....now I accept that we all see things differently, but until someone comes up with a better explanation as to why this is happening, I will trust my eyes.

Luiz is comfortable on the ball, but not great at winning the ball, or challenging ,like his Man City contemporaries.....I am not trying to dig him out ,or McGinn but can you tell me his memorable Moments.....apart from the sliding tackle in front of Mings, to come away with the ball, which was good.....I accept that Dougie is 22 still learning and easy on the eye......I merely trying to identify, why we are so open against these teams.

There are no real prototype anythings, they are Human, they have personal traits.....but you wouldn't have a small Goal keeper or Centre Backs, unless you were looking for trouble......The ball does go in to the air, whether we are fans of that or not, so we need players who can defend against it, some games,against some teams, is more critical.....I also accept that players have varying attributes and a good side has a good mix, too much or too less of anything can cause issues.

I have no idea what the future is for Dougie and I am not saying get rid..... we just need more presence in the middle, is my point.

[Villa 59]

Have you seen the stick Jordan Henderson gets at Anfield? And he's a CL and Pl winner 

Fans always have a 'boo boy'. For me the only time it's acceptable to Boomie obvious lack of effort...see Lescott for details.

 

[AntrimBlack]

We really need to be more realistic. We were poor last night and have been poor on other occasions, and will be poor again. It happens to all clubs.

But the talk of top 6 was premature and unrealistic for where we are in our plans. We can realistically be top 10 this season, and kick on again next season. This will, I think, be the owners' plan.

They thought we came up from the CH a season early, and we nearly got relegated. They probably think we are ahead of the plan this season.

It is clear that some of our squad are not good enough, and a number of our first team look inferior to the top 6 teams.

We need patience. We are improving with each season. We are gaining lots of plaudits for the way we play.

On wards and upwards.

[TRO]

The narrative is being distorted to silence folk, who want to discuss the game and why we lost so emphatically....and an idea of how we can improve.

• it isn't an odd blip at all....8 games out of 20, we have conceded 17 goals of the 24 conceded....the overall, is great, we just shoot oursleves in the foot....32 points so far, is not what we are concerned about....its not the apple, that concerns its the bruise/speck  that needs addressing.
• We are deemed as one of the best teams to watch by the neutrals, sadly West Ham took the plaudits last Night, with hardly any standout creative football, just a winning formula of stopping us playing.
• These performances, like this, will continue if we do nothing about it.....its called rectification in Industry.
• Its not about being ungrateful from where we have come from....its more about making sure we don't go back there.

Edited February 4, 2021 by TRO

[sne]

I had 11th - 17th in my prediction and I still have. Now the great first half we had to the season means we have a chance to do a little bit better than than but realistically the state of our squad and the hectic schedule means we are unlikely to be able to keep up the results or performances we've seen. It was always bound to happen.

Kinda hope that if it happens people won't to over the top with complains and critique but it also should not mean that if people raises issues the should be disregarded just because we have played well so far.

We certainly ain't going to improve by standing still or resting on our laurels. And I'm 100% our players and Smith won't do this.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

We really need to be more realistic. We were poor last night and have been poor on other occasions, and will be poor again. It happens to all clubs.

But the talk of top 6 was premature and unrealistic for where we are in our plans. We can realistically be top 10 this season, and kick on again next season. This will, I think, be the owners' plan.

They thought we came up from the CH a season early, and we nearly got relegated. They probably think we are ahead of the plan this season.

It is clear that some of our squad are not good enough, and a number of our first team look inferior to the top 6 teams.

We need patience. We are improving with each season. We are gaining lots of plaudits for the way we play.

On wards and upwards.

couldn't agree more.....top 6 is unrealistic and always was.

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, sne said:

I had 11th - 17th in my prediction and I still have. Now the great first half we had to the season means we have a chance to do a little bit better than than but realistically the state of our squad and the hectic schedule means we are unlikely to be able to keep up the results or performances we've seen. It was always bound to happen.

Kinda hope that if it happens people won't to over the top with complains and critique but it also should not mean that if people raises issues the should be disregarded just because we have played well so far.

We certainly ain't going to improve by standing still or resting on our laurels. And I'm 100% our players and Smith won't do this.

This was my worry after such a great start. That people would then use it as a stick to complain about when inevitably results dropped off. 

My aim at the start of the season was 14th with no real concerns about relegation. We've exceeded that. I think a top half finish would be a very good season but I'm not going to kick off if that doesn't happen. 

And even with losses like last night we are on track for it at the moment. 

[DCJonah]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

The narrative is being distorted to silence folk, who want to discuss the game and why we lost so emphatically....and an idea of how we can improve.

• it isn't an odd blip at all....8 games out of 20, we have conceded 17 goals of the 24 conceded....the overall, is great, we just shoot oursleves in the foot....32 points so far, is not what we are concerned about....its not the apple, that concerns its the bruise/speck  that needs addressing.
• We are deemed as one of the best teams to watch by the neutrals, sadly West Ham took the plaudits last Night, with hardly any standout creative football, just a winning formula of stopping us playing.
• These performances, like this, will continue if we do nothing about it.....its called rectification in Industry.
• Its not about being ungrateful from where we have come from....its more about making sure we don't go back there.

No it isn't. Plenty of people have offered critique and discussed the game last night in a sensible manner, without resorting to just moaning about things. 

I must admit its quite amusing seeing the same people pop back up desperate to share how we can improve when we have these little spells. 

 

[Zatman]

17 minutes ago, TRO said:

The narrative is being distorted to silence folk, who want to discuss the game and why we lost so emphatically....and an idea of how we can improve.

• it isn't an odd blip at all....8 games out of 20, we have conceded 17 goals of the 24 conceded....the overall, is great, we just shoot oursleves in the foot....32 points so far, is not what we are concerned about....its not the apple, that concerns its the bruise/speck  that needs addressing.
• We are deemed as one of the best teams to watch by the neutrals, sadly West Ham took the plaudits last Night, with hardly any standout creative football, just a winning formula of stopping us playing.
• These performances, like this, will continue if we do nothing about it.....its called rectification in Industry.
• Its not about being ungrateful from where we have come from....its more about making sure we don't go back there.

not really silencing people that suggest the same thing after every loss. 6 foot 5 cloggers in midfield arent really the answer as no other team in Europe are playing a clogger in defensive midfield. Suggesting basketball style players is the opposite of where football is

Soucek is a good player but he is the only player of his ilk playing in the Premier League at the moment

[Sam-AVFC]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

not really silencing people that suggest the same thing after every loss. 6 foot 5 cloggers in midfield arent really the answer as no other team in Europe are playing a clogger in defensive midfield. Suggesting basketball style players is the opposite of where football is

I had to laugh when someone suggested Scott McTominay as an example of a good, tall DM when he is absolutely crap there compared to 5'6 Fred.

I know a lot of people understandably base opinions of opposition players largely on stats or when they play us, but that's the first time I've seen someone base an opinion purely on a players height.

[nick76]

19 minutes ago, TRO said:

The narrative is being distorted to silence folk, who want to discuss the game and why we lost so emphatically....and an idea of how we can improve.

• it isn't an odd blip at all....8 games out of 20, we have conceded 17 goals of the 24 conceded....the overall, is great, we just shoot oursleves in the foot....32 points so far, is not what we are concerned about....its not the apple, that concerns its the bruise/speck  that needs addressing.
• We are deemed as one of the best teams to watch by the neutrals, sadly West Ham took the plaudits last Night, with hardly any standout creative football, just a winning formula of stopping us playing.
• These performances, like this, will continue if we do nothing about it.....its called rectification in Industry.
• Its not about being ungrateful from where we have come from....its more about making sure we don't go back there.

For you maybe this is the case but some on here are going way way past that.  We all agree about last night, at different levels, but I think we all agree it wasnt good enough.  We agree about the second point and the third point.   

There are many many comments on here that are way over the top, what you are stating is how you feel but definitely isnt what they are stating.

We know we need to improve, we know we need more players, we know we need to cut out mistakes, we know we need to be stronger in midfield.  We dont have all those attributes, we dont have all the players we need and no not all the players we have can provide the necessary elements we need. 

We couldnt fix it all in one summer window, January we got another hopefully quality player in, maybe some shuffling in the summer we can get some more in.  We are also competing against established quality teams who have been building for years and want the same thing as us....success.  We have no right to expect it to come to us, we have to fight for it but it's going to take time. 

Cant people see that we are rectifying things, we have improved defensively, we have improved attacking wise, as you say we are one of the best teams to watch.  We are so much better than last season, we have also brought in Sanson to help with the rotation.

Do people not think Dean and his team are seeing the same things as us, he may do things slightly differently to what some on here want but nobody can argue he's not taking us forward every six months in his 28 months he's been here.  People want quicker but that's just pie in the sky wishing.  I think how fast we have got here now is amazing in it's own right.  The post a page back about Smith being almost lucky was just a joke of a comment.

West Ham out played us last night, that will happen, they are a good team and deserved it.  Not everything will go our way.  We learn more from last night and then use that for the future games but people need patience, we are at the top end of football, trying to catch back up after a decade of being lost. 

We've had a couple of poor performances and as I said a couple of months ago how would our fans react when we did have a dip in form and I can see over the last week how that has come out?  Teams have dips in form and this is ours but we still won at Southampton, we lost easily against West Ham, now we hope we can regain some form against Arsenal and go on a run.  We have to learn from the negatives but jeez this forum has really wallowed in the negative side more than I thought.  Constructive criticism is always valubale and TRO, you are balanced, but defending some on here like they are just concerned at some of the detail but are happy overall is definitely not coming through in their messages.  

[VillaFaninLondon]

39 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I can’t believe you have written this.  

I’m sorry but I think you need a reality check.

I was going to write a response but I deleted what I started to write because if you think this then I’m not sure anything I say that you will agree with.

Erm, ok. Don't feel what I wrote was extreme enough to warrant you calling me out on it, but whatever. 

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Not sure when i've ever said poor performances dont happen.

What i've said is that our players were dreadful. If they are anywhere close to their peak we beat west ham.

In order to progress, we need to beat teams such as west ham, who were in a relegation battle with us last year.

I'm unhappy at the performance and i'm moaning about it.

I don't understand how any villa fan wouldn't see it the same way.

but we have beaten teams similar and better than west ham. multiple times this year. liverpool, leicester, wolves, arsenal, sheff utd all finished in the top half last season and we've put them all to the sword already this season.

you say 'in order to progress we need to beat teams like this' as if we're not already progressing. like we're losing to these teams regularly. i'm genuinely amazed at the reaction to last night. it's the best football i've ever seen from a villa side in my lifetime this season (i'm 37). yes, performance last night was shit, no one is saying otherwise, but it was very much the exception and not the rule.

some of us can accept last night's result because sometimes, that's football. the better team on the day beats your team. it sucks but it happens, and you remind yourself about the bigger picture and how far we've come in such a short time and how we're on course for our best PL points total in years.

to quote you, I don't understand how any villa fan wouldn't see it the same way.

so i guess should agree to disagree...carry on being miserable, just cause we lost to west ham.

[Guest av1]

2 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I think Smith often takes the plaudits for keeping us up, and for what we have done this season, but I think that ignores the fact that he's been heavily backed.

 

Wow. I don't know where to start with that. 

2 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I and was allowed to recruit key men like Shakespeare this summer who have helped massively on and off the pitch.

 

It was his decision to strengthen his staff, and bringing someone like Shakespeare in shows great strength of character.

2 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

This season he has generally done a very good job 

I'm done. Absolutely no pleasing some people and there's no point debating with twaddle like this. 

[lexicon]

On 30/01/2021 at 14:37, lexicon said:

I'm getting concerned that the fanbase is becoming a little entitled again. Need to all keep our feet on the ground and be realistic with expectations.

I know I'm quoting myself, but I think the point is worth repeating. 

[nick76]

37 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Erm, ok. Don't feel what I wrote was extreme enough to warrant you calling me out on it, but whatever. 

Looks like others agree with me.

I don’t want to be offside with people on this forum so I apologise for the directness, just getting cheesed off generally and that comment by you I just don’t think is fair at all on Smith.  It’s way off the mark even from a different point of view from mine.

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I have no idea what the future is for Dougie and I am not saying get rid..... we just need more presence in the middle, is my point.

I agree we need a more physical midfield option in the squad - but as I said in the Dougie thread, this is an argument for replacing Nakamba. Dougie is 22 years old and playing well in a tactically demanding position, and he will continue to improve every season for several years. He isn't the problem with this team.

[andym]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

only 4 teams may have conceded less goals, we have kept 10 clean sheets, which is great....but when we concede, we usually ship c 3.....its the manner of doing so, not just the stats.....The overall goals against column is not an issue....but when we analyse the 5/6 teams we struggle against, it paints a different picture.....In the 8 games against Leeds,Brighton,Southampton,Burnley & West Ham where we found the going tough.....we have conceded 17 goals out of a total so far of 24 in 20 games.....That tells me there is a disparity and a clear indication of the teams we struggle against....that tells me there is an issue.....now I accept that we all see things differently, but until someone comes up with a better explanation as to why this is happening, I will trust my eyes.

But as i said in a response to another of your posts, they are all different types of team, and we have played other teams who play similar to them and beat them. And in half of those games we didn't find the going tough, we matched or were the better team for most of the game. 

I don't think those games show a particular style of play we struggle against, that they suggest we can't deal with physicality - Burnley are the most physical out of those teams, and in terms of overall play we dominated in both games against them. Those games just happen to be those where as you have noted in a later post, we have 'shot ourselves in the foot'.

And this is where I 100% agree with you, i think this is the biggest issue we have. 

We haven't been completely and utterly outplayed throughout in too many games this season, (its mainly Leeds, Soton home, last night). 

But we have been the victim of our own poor decision making on numerous occasions that has cost us dear. For example, Burnley's 2 goals that equalised and then won them the game - Cash at RB has been pretty terrier like all season, i certainly wouldn't call him soft, or a stand off defender - he likes to get stuck in. Yet for those 2 goals for whatever reason he took the decision to stand off, and then just watched as the ball ended up in our net. Southampton at home, giving away stupid cheap freekicks on the edge of the box when you have Ward-Prowse on the opposition etc.

I'm sure previously i've seen you use expressions like 'lacking guile', not being 'streetwise' etc; and you are right; we are a very naive team at times, and it leads to inconsistent performances, even within individual games. That naivety is also something that can lead to a snowball effect in terms of conceding in a game - as you note conceding 3 against Leeds, Soton and Burnley in 1 half.

But improving on this is something that comes with experience; from games played and often from learning the hard way unfortunately. Rightly or wrongly, the club has taken the decision to go with a younger, inexperienced squad, and there are going to be growing pains along the way. We need to hope they do learn from their mistakes, and it pays off in the coming seasons.

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by andym

[picicata]

We looked pretty darn good before the enforced break and have looked a bit rubbish since.

I don't think we need to be overly critical, just accept that we have been disrupted by the situation. We know we can play much better than we did last night and it may take a little while to do so again but we will have to be patient.