Dean Smith

[Laughable Chimp]

9 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

The club has spent 130 mill on 12 players after losing at least that amount. It was a necessity not a choice and just over 10 mill a player at this level is not a lot. 

I always knew having to try to integrate so many new players, many of whom are new to this country and/or had no experience at this level was going to be tough and take time and so it is proving.

I'd consider success this season as staying up and I stated as much in the summer and I expected us to be dipping in and out of the bottom 3 all season. 

Smith has been successful in his 14 months here. No doubt we are struggling now, as was expected for me, but I believe he has earned more time and can get us out of it. Time will tell.

We did not lose at least 130 million pounds worth of players during the summer. The only people of value we actually lost were Tuanzebe and Abraham and back when they were playing for us, at the most optistic estimate they wouldn't have cost more than 60 million combined

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

23 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

It's ok, i'll copy and paste it for the last day when we get relegated.

If it goes down to the last day, would made we gave it a fight at least to be fair. Lol

[CoNnErS]

18 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Bit puzzled how you remember all this stuff, but you only joined VT a couple of days ago? And you seem to be spending most of your time on here trying to get a rise out of people.

All seems a bit 

I’m extremely puzzled how someone who’s been on this forum TEN YEARS doesn’t know how to look back through old posts!!. And I joined because I was getting more frustrated with DS and I wanted to know how other fans felt about him. Never been a fan of his since day 1 but that’s just my personal view. For the record I genuinely never thought we would be relegated this season on the basis that we were a better team than Southampton,Norwich and Watford. Unfortunately after Saturday mine, and many others opinion on here has changed. 
Never my intention to wind anyone up on here, if it comes across like that, that is down to pure frustration that our season is going down the shitter! Never thought we’d finish in the top half but I never thought we’d be in the bottom 3 at Xmas! 

Edited December 22, 2019 by CoNnErS

[M_Afro]

16 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

The club has spent 130 mill on 12 players after losing at least that amount. It was a necessity not a choice and just over 10 mill a player at this level is not a lot. 

I always knew having to try to integrate so many new players, many of whom are new to this country and/or had no experience at this level was going to be tough and take time and so it is proving.

I'd consider success this season as staying up and I stated as much in the summer and I expected us to be dipping in and out of the bottom 3 all season. 

Smith has been successful in his 14 months here. No doubt we are struggling now, as was expected for me, but I believe he has earned more time and can get us out of it. Time will tell.

I agree with a lot of your post but part of being a head coach is implementing/changing tactics in order to positively influence the team. I have not seen any of this from Smith. It was the same when we went on our awful run last year. He kept doing the same thing over and over again until Jack returned and saved our bacon.

[KentVillan]

11 minutes ago, CoNnErS said:

I’m extremely puzzled how someone who’s been on this forum TEN YEARS doesn’t know how to look back through old posts!!. And I joined because I was getting more frustrated with DS and I wanted to know how other fans felt about him. Never been a fan of his since day 1 but that’s just my personal view. For the record I genuinely never thought we would be relegated this season on the basis that we were a better team than Southampton,Norwich and Watford. Unfortunately after Saturday mine, and many others opinion on here has changed. 
Never my intention to wind anyone up on here, if it comes across like that, that is down to pure frustration that our season is going down the shitter! Never thought we’d finish in the top half but I never thought we’d be in the bottom 3 at Xmas! 

Fair enough. Was just a bit pissed off you called me deluded, when if you'd seen all my posts from the start of the season, I've been supportive of Smith but generally see us as a 16th place team, if we keep Mings, McGinn and Grealish fit.

Like you, the Southampton performance has changed my mind on Smith to some extent. It's the second time in a few weeks that another manager has done the exact same job on him - run Grealish into the corner, and leave two quick strikers up for when Grealish loses the ball with Targett miles up the pitch. It's so predictable.

I do think Smith has been a bit unlucky with the Mings injury and now the McGinn injury. Most managers would struggle when their star centre back is out for 6 weeks, but especially a manager like Smith who leaves the centre backs with a lot of work to do, since the full backs are always off on adventures.

A lot of people make out that last season was largely the Jack Grealish show, but really if you cast your mind back, it was Tyrone Mings who rescued our season. As soon as Mings joined, we were outplaying teams every week, but not converting the dominance into points. Then Grealish came in and we went on that mad run of wins.

Without Mings we don't have that solid base to build on. And people can say what they like about his loose play in possession (all fair comment), but he is the best defender at this club by a country mile.

Bring Mings and McGinn back, add a better a striker, and Smith probably still keeps us up. I know it's all ifs and buts, but a new manager will have the same ifs and buts to deal with.

[markavfc40]

24 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

I agree with a lot of your post but part of being a head coach is implementing/changing tactics in order to positively influence the team. I have not seen any of this from Smith. It was the same when we went on our awful run last year. He kept doing the same thing over and over again until Jack returned and saved our bacon.

I have found it frustrating that he hasn't tried to change formation but it may be because trying to get so many new players to gel to be swapping and changing formation at the same time Smith may feel may create more issues than it solves.

I know we are all hurting but I don't see throwing the baby out with the bath water is going to help. This season was always going to be really tough and a battle to stay up. Before yesterday we had played all of the top 6 in our previous 8 games and in that run not surprisingly given the opposition really struggled and only took 4 points. We then go into yesterday under huge pressure, like Southampton in fairness, and didn't turn up. We have to do better no doubt about that but I think Smith has earned the time to see if he can complete the goal of keeping us up.

Stating the obvious but we desperately need the boost of a win and hopefully that will come on Thursday and off the back of it we can move forward and be a bit more positive as a fan base.

Edited December 22, 2019 by markavfc40

[avfc1982am]

19 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I wonder when Smith was appointed how many would have thought 14 months later that if he'd got us promoted and into the semi final of a cup competition, with the chance still to go further, some would be questioning if he should keep his job. 

Mark, You are more often than not one of the voices of reason on here. I also share many of your views on this topic. However when you really stand back though and take the last 12 months etc and put it all into prospective. Well....I don't buy into this monumental achievement in getting us promoted. For instance, we'd been massively underachieving under Bruce. Fair enough the start of last season was unstable but by the start of the season we had arguably a solid team littered with the better players in the league. Defensive cover was a disgrace but by in large a team that most the league would drool over. Most of us expected a challenge for promotion even under Bruce hence his eventual sacking. IMO it was a great achievement but more because our final run in coincided with the return of the one player that could and made everything click. 

You mention the Semi of the cup also but put that into prospective. It's no achievement really. We beat Crewe, a second string Brighton, Wolves reserves and Liverpool's kids. Yes it should be an great thing getting to the semi final but it would have been more embarrassing not getting there under the circumstances.

I really don't want to see Smith lose his job or be subjected to nonsense by anyone. I also don't think it's bad enough for a sacking either which would be mickey mouse imo at the current time. But I do think due to the continual issues arising from not only the personnel, formation, play and ultimately the results that questioning what the frig is going on is most definitely relevant. What I witnessed from us yesterday reminded me of the year we went down. Not organised, no discipline, no fight just a complete passive mess. I think questions need to be asked because someone has to be accountable.

 

[M_Afro]

2 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I have found it frustrating that he hasn't tried to change formation but it may be because trying to get so many new players to gel to be swapping and changing formation at the same time Smith may feel may create more issues than it solves.

I know we are all hurting but I don't see throwing the baby out with the bath water is going to help. This season was always going to be really tough and a battle to stay up. Before yesterday we had played all of the top 6 in our previous 8 games and in that run not surprisingly given the opposition really struggled and only took 4 points. We then go into yesterday under huge pressure, like Southampton in fairness, and didn't turn up. We have to do better no doubt about that but I think Smith has earned the time to see if he can complete the goal of keeping us up.

Stating the obvious but we desperately need the boost of a win and hopefully that will come on Thursday and off the back of it we can move forward and be a bit more positive as a fan base.

Sounds like a plan. A barmy, brummie, boozy Boxing Day atmosphere will hopefully cheer the boys home on Thursday. If we could follow that up with a long overdue away win at Watford, I’m sure we will all feel much better.

[CoNnErS]

Looking back, we must have seen this coming from last season. We conceded 2 at home to Blues, 5 at home to Forest, 2 at home to Stoke, 3 at home to Leeds, 2 at home to QPR, 3 at home to Swansea(cup), 2 at home to Hull, 3 at home to Sheff Utd, 2 at home to Albion. Is that down to Dean Smith? Is it down to John Terry? A different back 4, but the same defensive problems.

[nnock1984]

Tricky one. I want Smith in the job long term, but can we afford relegation? 
 

I’m sure spurs ideally wanted to persist with Pochetino, but there was a point where they had to make a change and so far it has improved their fortunes. 
 

I’m not sure what I’d do, anything less than 4 points from the next 2 games and I think the board will be forced to make a change! 

[Adam2003]

18 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Well....I don't buy into this monumental achievement in getting us promoted.

Leaving aside the validity or not your general points, didn't the period you are dismissing as a fairly normal performance level mostly put down to the return of our star player include *literally the best run of results in our entire history*? 

[Adam2003]

2 minutes ago, nnock1984 said:

Tricky one. I want Smith in the job long term, but can we afford relegation? 
 

I’m sure spurs ideally wanted to persist with Pochetino, but there was a point where they had to make a change and so far it has improved their fortunes. 
 

I’m not sure what I’d do, anything less than 4 points from the next 2 games and I think the board will be forced to make a change! 

Personally I think we can afford relegation. Look at Burnley and Dyche. Kept faith. Came back stronger. And as a fan, being in the Championship was good fun. Actually that last relegation made the current situation less scary for me, as if we go down I now know I will still enjoy things, and I didn’t remember our last relegation.

However it’s a moot point as I DON’T think the board will stand for it - relegation zone at New Year and they will likely get itchy fingers, so I kind of agree with your last point. 

 

[avfc1982am]

1 minute ago, Adam2003 said:

Leaving aside the validity or not your general points, didn't the period you are dismissing as a fairly normal performance level mostly put down to the return of our star player include *literally the best run of results in our entire history*? 

Who said, "fairly normal performance level"? Stop making shit up. 

[CoNnErS]

32 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Personally I think we can afford relegation. Look at Burnley and Dyche

Look at Leeds, look at Forest, look at Sheff Wed, look at Derby! Been in that brutal god forsaken division for years! Dont know about anyone else on here but I HATED EVERY F***ING SECOND of being in that Championship!

[VillaChris]

35 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Personally I think we can afford relegation. Look at Burnley and Dyche. Kept faith. Came back stronger. And as a fan, being in the Championship was good fun. Actually that last relegation made the current situation less scary for me, as if we go down I now know I will still enjoy things, and I didn’t remember our last relegation.

However it’s a moot point as I DON’T think the board will stand for it - relegation zone at New Year and they will likely get itchy fingers, so I kind of agree with your last point. 

 

I want to see Jack Grealish captaining us back into europe one day. If Conor Coady can captain a club into europe we can do it in 2-3 years with smart moves. That won't happen with relegation as Jack understandbly will be off.

Dean Smith will always be a mini legend to me for dragging us back into the premier league. Sometimes though managers can't quite do it at certain levels, I think that's the case for him atm. He could well become a very good prem manager in the future.

[Laughable Chimp]

37 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Personally I think we can afford relegation. Look at Burnley and Dyche. Kept faith. Came back stronger. And as a fan, being in the Championship was good fun. Actually that last relegation made the current situation less scary for me, as if we go down I now know I will still enjoy things, and I didn’t remember our last relegation.

However it’s a moot point as I DON’T think the board will stand for it - relegation zone at New Year and they will likely get itchy fingers, so I kind of agree with your last point. 

 

Look at Warnock and Cardiff. Look at Alex Neil and Norwich. Not all managers who stick around with the club after relegation gets to have that fairytale of bringing them back up again.

[Fairy In Boots]

Been reading Brentford forums the consensus is that this is no great surprise to them. 

Sucks I like Dean as a bloke but no room for sentimental perseverance. 

Relegation would mean Jack going and a truly special player one of our own playing for a rival club makes me sick tbh. We can’t get relegated it’s that simple, lose vs Norwich he must go

[brummybloke]

Dont want smith going anywhere, we know the aim is stay up, it's the manner if these losses which is disturbing.

No fight, no basic skills like tackling and heading, those skills help dominate other teams and stop them from attacking.

 

If there is any suggestion that the board would act if we are bottom come jan, I would guess the board will have already sounded out people who are not in a job at the moment such as poch

[Condimentalist]

5 minutes ago, brummybloke said:

Dont want smith going anywhere, we know the aim is stay up, it's the manner if these losses which is disturbing.

No fight, no basic skills like tackling and heading, those skills help dominate other teams and stop them from attacking.

 

If there is any suggestion that the board would act if we are bottom come jan, I would guess the board will have already sounded out people who are not in a job at the moment such as poch

Poch 

[Dave-R]

16 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

I want to see Jack Grealish captaining us back into europe one day. If Conor Coady can captain a club into europe we can do it in 2-3 years with smart moves. That won't happen with relegation as Jack understandbly will be off.

Dean Smith will always be a mini legend to me for dragging us back into the premier league. Sometimes though managers can't quite do it at certain levels, I think that's the case for him atm. He could well become a very good prem manager in the future.

I think Smith needs to learn, his first prem outing may not go as plan like it isn't now.

Question is as well is Jack being Picked as captain because he's the best suited to the captaincy or is it because he's a favourite of Smith's. Maybe we have a player who could captain the side better than Jack, so he can concentrate on games better. I certainly do not think Jack as captain is working at the moment, he's becoming to riled up and mad when he gets fouled, which is understandable but he doesn't look like the Jack he was some games ago.

Smith really needs to up his game here, I said when our team won against Liverpool that maybe that side should of faced Southampton and for reasons. The team we are playing is getting frustrated to quickly, being undone to quickly and unable to bring the game back once we are goals down. There are sever fractures throughout this squad yet the one glimpse of a win came from the Liverpool game, it may of been what we need but will never know.

It may take Smith a couple to a few outings in the premier to get this right and maybe we need to drop back down so this squad can learn the ins and outs of what it's like to play together. Well drilled sides are kicking our teeth in and it's looking like the only times were able to win is on a squads bad day which isn't good at all. It's looking like whatever we try or do is not working, Smith, the players have just about hit rock bottom, there has to be a point in which it all snaps or we recover. There is only so much defeat in a squad before it falls completely apart or they taste victory and we've tasted lots of defeats, to much in fact that now you could say our squad knows what it's like to feel one of the worst feeling in football.

There has to be a comeback on the horizon and we start to feel a better feeling than this, this squad has to start improving on all front and push through whatever is going on in that team.