Dean Smith

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

When Steve Bruce had a bad spell this season it was the manager's fault.

When Dean Smith have a bad spell it's the players fault. Interesting.

Come on. Think hard. You'll get there

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

A lot of people talked about fundamental root and branch changes at the football club. A philosophy. An ethos. Totally different types of players identified, signed and developed. How long does that take? A few months? Hell no, don't be ridiculous. We have to be willing to accept short term problems to fix things in the long term. You can't have your cake and eat it too, I'm afraid. 

Excellent post. 

Smith may be the wrong choice, may end up failing but if we don't commit to a more long term approach we will continue generating mess after mess as we have done for far too long now.

[HeyAnty]

2 hours ago, lexicon said:

A lot of people talked about fundamental root and branch changes at the football club. A philosophy. An ethos. Totally different types of players identified, signed and developed. How long does that take? A few months? Hell no, don't be ridiculous. We have to be willing to accept short term problems to fix things in the long term. You can't have your cake and eat it too, I'm afraid. 

I agree things take time but where is the evidence of this even starting? 

I pretty sure Smith wouldn't be getting the abuse he is if his system or type of play was showing it.  His system and tactics haven't changed one iota from Bruce.  There is not one sign of progression, some would argue its going the other way.

[villalad21]

4 minutes ago, HeyAnty said:

I pretty sure Smith wouldn't be getting the abuse he is if his system or type of play was showing it.  His system and tactics haven't changed one iota from Bruce.  There is not one sign of progression, some would argue its going the other way.

Agreed. It's not the defeats by themselves i'm more upset about, it's the manner.

[Nigel]

17 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

 

Main issue with DS teams is the defense.

His teams tends to concede 50+ goals every season, very hard to get promoted with that many goals conceded.

So far it's been very telling why we concede so many goals. Our fullbacks keep bombing forward making us extremely vulnerable to counter attacks. It's an extremely risky way of playing.

Now this is a fair comment!

I suppose that what we are trying to get from him is an identity, and with this the type of player that will fit with this.

It may be the case that Smith may not be the manager to actually take us up, but what he will do is get us on the right track.

Then the next manager (With a similar playing ethos) can take this on, instead of starting from scratch.

...Either this or it works with smith.  Either way we will be heading the right way!

 

[Wainy316]

26 minutes ago, HeyAnty said:

Are you telling me Elmohamdy isnt a better option that Hutton at RB?

He's not

[Merson08]

Game	Possession	Shots	On Target	Fouls			Scored	Concede
Swansea	47	11	5	13		W	1	0
Norwich	52	8	1	13		L	1	2
QPR	68	18	5	12		L	0	1
Bolton	60	17	3	8		W	2	0
Derby	54	21	5	10		W	3	0
Birmingham	74	12	5	9		W	4	2
Notts Forest	63	26	12	9		D	5	5
Middlesbrough	58	21	8	11		W	3	0
West Brom	48	15	7	12		D	2	2
Stoke	57	9	5	10		D	2	2
Leeds	34	10	2	12		L	2	3
Swansea	41	13	5	11		W	1	0
Preston	61	15	5	10		D	1	1
QPR	61	22	5	10		D	2	2
Wigan	51	4	0	13		L	3	0
Hull	61	18	2	14		D	2	2
Ipswich	45	23	13	14		W	2	1
Reading	43	13	3	17		D	0	0
Sheff Utd	55	12	5	11		D	3	3
Brentford	38	6	3	10		L	0	1

 

Our possession game didnt end with Grealish's injury, its the last 4 games that has really changed. 

[terrytini]

It’s pretty horrible isn’t it ?

Ive seen all but one game under Smith. I’ve seen us play better football under him than for many years. So I have some ( diminishing) confidence that what we are seeing is temporary. However, I’ve seen football as poor as anything as well.

Im as mortified as any as to why the approach has changed but ultimately it can only be one of two things.

EITHER

A

the players can’t play how he wants, as consistently as would be needed (over 90 minutes or over multiple games ) - particularly without Jack and Axle - So he’s playing what he thinks suits them best ( which, given they were assembled by Bruce, resembles Bruce’s teams) and they are doing it to about the same standard as they always have.

If this is so, I think complaints are futile. Cries of “ put the kids in” are based on very little player assessment, and, putting them into the team at the wrong time would be counter productive. Arguments about which Left Back, or which DM etc, are really the “ two bald men arguing over a comb” type. Hopefully he knows who he wants to work with come the summer.

In this scenario, the only thing that will affect performances in the short term is the return of Jack. For those that argue one player shouldn’t make such a difference I’d say ( a) it is self evident, under two Managers, that he does and (b) it depends on the player and the type of team he influences.

Only a summer clear out and all it entails will change things.

OR

B

the players CAN play how he wants, consistently,  but either.....

 -he's decided to play like this on purpose, so this IS how he wants,  - unrealistic in my view, only really supportable if you rationalise it by the “ can’t handle a big club” nonsense,

 - or he can’t get them to do so. In which case we are back to waiting for the clear out.

Having seen the good and bad, I’m going to go with ‘A’. Particularly as I recall Bruce saying at the start of the season how it was HIS intention to have playing a more front foot style, only for him to also quickly abandon it.

Im afraid we have players who were bought to play a particular way, and have shown for many months that without that bit extra ( Jack, Snodgrass, Kodja Of old) neither that way, nor the players that play it, can compete in modern football.

 

 

 

 

[Thug]

Can we let the whole Bruce thing go please?

He had the resources to walk this league, and just about made the play-offs, scraped past a Middlesborough team that relied on one man, and got taught a footballing lesson in the final which we were never going to win bar a fluke.

The football was boring, and we were going to get nowhere this season.

He's gone and I'm grateful.  Short-termism that didn't pay off.

 

[HeyAnty]

4 minutes ago, Merson08 said:

Game	Possession	Shots	On Target	Fouls			Scored	Concede
Swansea	47	11	5	13		W	1	0
Norwich	52	8	1	13		L	1	2
QPR	68	18	5	12		L	0	1
Bolton	60	17	3	8		W	2	0
Derby	54	21	5	10		W	3	0
Birmingham	74	12	5	9		W	4	2
Notts Forest	63	26	12	9		D	5	5
Middlesbrough	58	21	8	11		W	3	0
West Brom	48	15	7	12		D	2	2
Stoke	57	9	5	10		D	2	2
Leeds	34	10	2	12		L	2	3
Swansea	41	13	5	11		W	1	0
Preston	61	15	5	10		D	1	1
QPR	61	22	5	10		D	2	2
Wigan	51	4	0	13		L	3	0
Hull	61	18	2	14		D	2	2
Ipswich	45	23	13	14		W	2	1
Reading	43	13	3	17		D	0	0
Sheff Utd	55	12	5	11		D	3	3
Brentford	38	6	3	10		L	0	1

 

Our possession game didnt end with Grealish's injury, its the last 4 games that has really changed. 

Its were he started playing 2 DM's

Edited February 14, 2019 by HeyAnty

[terrytini]

Good post @Merson08 but the Wigan score is the wrong way around

Edited February 14, 2019 by terrytini
Referred to wrong person as OP

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

We made it into the play off final in Bruce's 2nd season.

You think DS will do better than that in his 2nd season?

 

Honestly no idea, but I am 100% certain that after two years with DS this club will be om a better state than when it was picked up, which is more than I can say for Steve Bruce. 

Pretty clear the new administration and DS got their long term goggles on. That will obviously require patience. Comparing him to "promotion specialist" Steve Bruce, who signed a bunch of players short term without even consider whether they suited his own hoofball, that's just ridiculous. Scott Hogan the targetman, Bananason, Elmo, Nyland, Hourihane, Bree, Lansbury and Whelan. Outstanding. Sure left us better off. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara

[Thug]

45 minutes ago, HeyAnty said:

Are you telling me O'Hare (who is comfortable on the ball) wouldnt have been better than Hourihane.  Smith let him go.

Are you telling me Davis wouldn't be a better option to have on that Adomah or El Gazhi.  

Are you telling me Elmohamdy isnt a better option that Hutton at RB?

 

Smith has took the safe option to avoid getting blame.  Now he can use the excuse the fans are giving him that the players arent up to it.  

 

Davis is a centre forward, them two are wingers.

O'Hare ad one good game in the cup, then he started against Swansea and was totally anonymous, too weak, and quite frankly if Hourihane had put in that performace he would have been ripped apart on here.  He's either one for the future, or he'll be another one that is playing League 2 football in a few years along with some of our other "superstars in the making".  Dunno which, but he's definitely not ready yet.

Elmo vs Hutton - Elmo started a couple of games, gave away a penalty and a weak header that was a perfect cushion header for their striker to roll into the net.  He was actually worse than Hutton.

So... yeah.  I am telling you all of the above.

 

 

 

[HeyAnty]

2 minutes ago, Thug said:

Davis is a centre forward, them two are wingers.

O'Hare ad one good game in the cup, then he started against Swansea and was totally anonymous, too weak, and quite frankly if Hourihane had put in that performace he would have been ripped apart on here.  He's either one for the future, or he'll be another one that is playing League 2 football in a few years along with some of our other "superstars in the making".  Dunno which, but he's definitely not ready yet.

Elmo vs Hutton - Elmo started a couple of games, gave away a penalty and a weak header that was a perfect cushion header for their striker to roll into the net.  He was actually worse than Hutton.

So... yeah.  I am telling you all of the above.

 

 

 

I didnt say Davis was was a winger.

So you judge O'Hare on one game and one of his first starts.  He got motm at weekend.  You must not be reading the Hourihane thread on here because he gets ripped apart every game on here.  Most dishonest player i have ever saw in a Villa shirt.

Im at work so i dont have time to write up all the mistakes Hutton has made resulting in goal.  I'm a better player than Hutton.

[sne]

6 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Honestly no idea, but I am 100% certain that after two years with DS this club will be om a better state than when it was picked up, which is more than I can say for Steve Bruce. 

Pretty clear the new administration and DS got their long term goggles on. That will obviously require patience. Comparing him to "promotion specialist" Steve Bruce, who signed a bunch of players short term without even consider whether they suited his own hoofball, that's just ridiculous. Scott Hogan the targetman, Bananason, Elmo, Nyland, Hourihane, Bree, Lansbury and Whelan. Outstanding. Sure left us better off. 

while I certainly hope that is the case, I'd like to see some evidence to it as well.

Continuing to play the likes of Hutton, Taylor, Jedi, (Whelan's been OK at late) Adomah, Elmo... and the other Wastemen ™ instead of the ones who will be or at least the younger players with development potential is counterproductive IMO.

It irks me that we loaned out Bree, Clark and O'Hare who might not be ready still would have shown more desire and/or ability than those we see now fannying about doing f all.

[HeyAnty]

1 minute ago, sne said:

while I certainly hope that is the case, I'd like to see some evidence to it as well.

Continuing to play the likes of Hutton, Taylor, Jedi, (Whelan's been OK at late) Adomah, Elmo... and the other Wastemen ™ instead of the ones who will be or at least the younger players with development potential is counterproductive IMO.

It irks me that we loaned out Bree, Clark and O'Hare who might not be ready still would have shown more desire and/or ability than those we see now fannying about doing f all.

!00% this with me.

[hippo]

16 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Honestly no idea, but I am 100% certain that after two years with DS this club will be om a better state than when it was picked up, which is more than I can say for Steve Bruce. 

Pretty clear the new administration and DS got their long term goggles on. That will obviously require patience. Comparing him to "promotion specialist" Steve Bruce, who signed a bunch of players short term without even consider whether they suited his own hoofball, that's just ridiculous. Scott Hogan the targetman, Bananason, Elmo, Nyland, Hourihane, Bree, Lansbury and Whelan. Outstanding. Sure left us better off. 

Really - I think the poor form of Bruce caught them on the hop and they had no option but to dismiss him mid season - Smith was the best they could get at very short notice.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Excellent post. 

Smith may be the wrong choice, may end up failing but if we don't commit to a more long term approach we will continue generating mess after mess as we have done for far too long now.

This is exactly how I feel.

We are creating a modern structure.

IF Smith fails, long term the platform is being  set correctly to ensure we get it right eventually.

He deserves the time to prove himself.

 

[Pimlico_Villa]

3 hours ago, punkiller1981 said:

Not quite sure how DS can say it wasn’t what we deserved. We hardly touched the ball all night and the two times we got in all night the finishing was poor. Friday night we got something we didn’t deserve in a point when we should have had nothing. Also can somebody show Andre green some YouTube clips if mbappe and tell him to try and copy him

Sooner or later all of our Managers descend into delusion and start watching different games to us. It’s the Manager equivalent coping mechanism of the Happy Clappers - dramatically seeking even an ounce of positivity 

[Thug]

3 minutes ago, HeyAnty said:

I didnt say Davis was was a winger.

So you judge O'Hare on one game and one of his first starts.  He got motm at weekend.  You must not be reading the Hourihane thread on here because he gets ripped apart every game on here.  Most dishonest player i have ever saw in a Villa shirt.

Im at work so i dont have time to write up all the mistakes Hutton has made resulting in goal.  I'm a better player than Hutton.

It's all about opinions, and I totally understand where you're coming from.

I was also screaming out for O'Hare to be given a chance too, and although 1 game obviously isn't long enough to judge, he was very poor on that day.  I think this loan will do him good. 

I've also been hoping Davis will get his chance too, but Tammy is more than earning his place at present - and we've not really been in a comfortable position where we can take him off and let Davis have 20 minutes here and there.

Maybe you're suggesting a 2 up top formation? And yeah I think I'd agree it's worth a go, but Davis and Abraham too similar? Would it be those two up together?

Horses for courses, but I'd take Hutton over Elmo. Personal preference, and I respect your right to disagree.