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Israel, Palestine and Iran


Swerbs

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Don't Hamas have a lot of leaders in Qatar? I'm surprised Israel haven't gone after them yet. 

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50 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

As opposed to The West?

The idea that Israel is alone in doing that is absurd. Not long ago US and UK air assets took out an Iranian general in Iraq with plenty of collateral. We also did the same with plenty of terrorists in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.

I think taking out the leaders of Hamas is 100% better than bombing Gaza, and this particular guy is a co founder of Hamas.

It’s the Mossad/CIA/MI6 playbook.

I'm not excusing anyone, but if you have someone who is a bad guy and is in a country where there is a structure, it ought to be possible to do things another way. Whether that is trying to secure an arrest or even restricting yourself to the illegal snatch and grab - blowing up buildings or murdering people isn't it.

And for clarity, I felt the same way about Bin Laden - the US illegally entered Pakistan and killed him - there would have been an opportunity to arrest and try him, but murder was what they had in mind - the sovereignty of other nations should be given at least as much respect as to let them know you're coming.

I know that it happens all the time, but for me it doesn't seem the right way to do things when you're chasing an individual for crimes rather than waging war on a nation or national group.

 

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28 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Who knows, perhaps if leaders were targeted a bit more, leaders might have a different opinion on war.

If we applied international law to those leaders, I reckon that would probably do the trick without having to blow up buildings and take a few people with them.

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38 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I think taking out the leaders of Hamas is 100% better than bombing Gaza, and this particular guy is a co founder of Hamas.

I'm not sure this is an either/or - Israel would like to be bombing Gaza for most of this year apparently.

As a provocative action, you'd have to wonder if this is a deliberate attempt to draw Hezbollah into conflict - perhaps Israel is hoping to solve all it's problems in one go?

 

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38 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

If we applied international law to those leaders, I reckon that would probably do the trick without having to blow up buildings and take a few people with them.

International law is pointless unless the relevant country agrees with the ruling OR other countries are willing to intervene and enforce the court judgement using military force.  

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11 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

If we applied international law to those leaders, I reckon that would probably do the trick without having to blow up buildings and take a few people with them.

International law is a wholly Western phenomenon though. Look at Putin, he's wanted by the ICC, it doesn't even affect him. Israel also tried to apply international law to many of the Nazi war criminals post WW2 but countries like Argentine, Brazil, Bolivia, Russia +++ refused to let them be tried or delivered over (even though you can in many cases multiply the crimes committed in the Holocaust by hundreds of thousands in comparison to what's going on today). In many cases Israel flew these guys back to Israel to try them instead of killing them.

Imo it's a bit naive to think that Hezbollah would hand over the leaders of Hamas, the same can likely be said about Qatar, when even after the holocaust it was hard to get hardcore genocidal nazis handed over by so called 'allies'.

 

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13 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said:

2 explosions near the tomb of Iranian general Qasem Soleimani has killed over 100 people. Now who could have done that?

More likely to be Sunni islamist terrorists / separatists than Israel in the circumstances I think. Has more hallmarks of a terrorist attack than something Mossad would carry out

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2 hours ago, Mr_Dogg said:

2 explosions near the tomb of Iranian general Qasem Soleimani has killed over 100 people. Now who could have done that?

Didn't realise it was Trump who gave the order on that assassination. 

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On 02/01/2024 at 20:08, OutByEaster? said:

I'm not sure this is an either/or - Israel would like to be bombing Gaza for most of this year apparently.

As a provocative action, you'd have to wonder if this is a deliberate attempt to draw Hezbollah into conflict - perhaps Israel is hoping to solve all it's problems in one go?

 

Does Israel have enough stockpile of weapons to have two wars going on?

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It's hard to see how anyone comes out of this well. Iran is reportedly having to hold Hezbollah back as they're afraid of Hezbollah getting annihilated by Israel\US and losing their most powerful Islamist proxy. This was clearly an attempt to reaffirm the priesthood's power after having some serious public blow back in the last couple of years.

It feels like we're teetering on a big Middle-Eastern war with Iran's axis getting more and more aggressive and Israel doing exactly what Iran hoped they'd do.

What whoever replaces BN needs to do is to get back behind a table with Saudi Arabia and reaffirm the Abraham Accords, Iran stoked Oct. 7th to scupper the deal and so far it seems to have worked. It's a dilemma for SA, but it's not like they're very concerned about Arabian or Muslims lives in other ME conflicts (Yemen, Syria, Lebanon). 

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Gotta give it to Israel, they have literally hired the governance of the world's biggest superpower. 

Congress members who were more supportive of Israel at the start of the Gaza war received over $100,000 more on average from pro-Israel donors during their last election than those who most supported Palestine, a Guardian analysis of campaign data shows.

The findings have “profound implications for what American policy toward … Israel looks like”, said John Mearsheimer, a University of Chicago political scientist and co-author of the 2006 book The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy. “If there was no lobby pushing Congress in a particular direction in a really forceful way, the position of the US Congress on the war in Gaza would be fundamentally different.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/10/congress-member-pro-israel-donations-military-support

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5 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Gotta give it to Israel, they have literally hired the governance of the world's biggest superpower. 

Congress members who were more supportive of Israel at the start of the Gaza war received over $100,000 more on average from pro-Israel donors during their last election than those who most supported Palestine, a Guardian analysis of campaign data shows.

The findings have “profound implications for what American policy toward … Israel looks like”, said John Mearsheimer, a University of Chicago political scientist and co-author of the 2006 book The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy. “If there was no lobby pushing Congress in a particular direction in a really forceful way, the position of the US Congress on the war in Gaza would be fundamentally different.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/10/congress-member-pro-israel-donations-military-support

Pro-Israeli organisations are openly gunning for anyone they believe isn't pro-Israel at the upcoming US elections - they are pumping apparently extremely significant money into opposing those they want out, like Omar and Tlaib, but realistically basically anyone that's ever uttered anything pro-Palestine they want gone.

Lobbying is a cancer.

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So the Iranian terrorists being shot out the red sea, apparently linked to the Gaza conflict. Seems like a great excuse for the good ole USA to enter the conflict to destroy not just Hezbollah but teach Iran a lesson. Those who know, Is this a possibility?

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Seems they're framing the upcoming South African case for prosecution of Israel as 'International Law vs NATO power'. 

It's pretty clear that South Africa are in the right, there's almost no circumstance in which Israel can claim they haven't spent the last three months committing war crimes, but I suspect that a number of nations are about to discover that International Law is whatever the US says it is and if they don't like it they can die.

 

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On 02/01/2024 at 20:55, Mandy Lifeboats said:

International law is pointless.

Fixed.

Quote

International Law is whatever the US says it is and if they don't like it they can die

See Above.

Edited by villa89
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