Marka Ragnos Posted January 3 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, rjw63 said: But, but… I thought the custard bowl nobbers were getting stitched up on a weekly basis. Only one point and one place difference? Is this table wrong or are they whining moaning cabbages? Table surprisingly similar, all in all, which is both an argument for scrapping VAR—and one for keeping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 4 (edited) 16 hours ago, rjw63 said: But, but… I thought the custard bowl nobbers were getting stitched up on a weekly basis. Only one point and one place difference? Is this table wrong or are they whining moaning cabbages? I think it would depend on how this table has been made. I assume this is basically correcting any decision that VAR has changed. It's not correcting any decision that VAR has got wrong. So for example, the United vs Wolves game where Onana should have given away a penalty. The ref didn't give it and VAR didn't give it. So whilst everyone would agree that should have been a penalty and VAR got it wrong, it doesn't register on this table Edited January 4 by Stevo985 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLillis Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 On 01/01/2024 at 23:22, MrBlack said: The Duran incident was a soft penalty. By the book, I'd argue its a penalty as he got kicked, which stopped him getting on to the ball he was running on to. But if it wasn't given on the pitch I wouldn't expect VAR to overturn it. The fact it was though, I don't want VAR overturning that as its a subjective call that looks different viewed by a different person. I agree it was soft. I agree its a penalty I also agree that VAR shouldn't overturn it. The problem with it all is they DID make the referee in the Sheff Utd v Wolves game go to the screen and inevitable change his mind for something very similar (I'm sure Wolves had another similar thing happen against Newcastle too). Things would be so much better if they all interpreted the rules in the same way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 52 minutes ago, MarkLillis said: I agree it was soft. I agree its a penalty I also agree that VAR shouldn't overturn it. The problem with it all is they DID make the referee in the Sheff Utd v Wolves game go to the screen and inevitable change his mind for something very similar (I'm sure Wolves had another similar thing happen against Newcastle too). Things would be so much better if they all interpreted the rules in the same way! The second the ref is asked to look at it again it's planted the seed that he got the call wrong. So 99% of the time the ref will change their call. The commentators even joke about it "oh, the refs been called to the monitor, we know what this means" The system needs scrapping in its current form. It's just full of flaws. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan95 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Everton winning the Calvert-Lewin appeal is another damning indictment of VAR. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 6 minutes ago, villan95 said: Everton winning the Calvert-Lewin appeal is another damning indictment of VAR. Fantastic news, Incompetent pricks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 So 3 refs thought it was a sending off, an it ain't! Speaks volumes really, yet again, proving the problem is the incompetant refs and not the tech. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: So 3 refs thought it was a sending off, an it ain't! Speaks volumes really, yet again, proving the problem is the incompetant refs and not the tech. As @MrBlack says, the guy who should matter didn't think it was, until his colleague spent a minute watching it in slow motion then publicly told him "I think you made a clear and obvious mistake and you need to go and have another look". He should have stuck to his guns, but when that recommendation is made it is essentially a public correction from VAR to the ref "you've got it so wrong it surpasses the threshold for me to intervene". The process is utterly ****. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: As @MrBlack says, the guy who should matter didn't think it was, until his colleague spent a minute watching it in slow motion then publicly told him "I think you made a clear and obvious mistake and you need to go and have another look". He should have stuck to his guns, but when that recommendation is made it is essentially a public correction from VAR to the ref "you've got it so wrong it surpasses the threshold for me to intervene". The process is utterly ****. True. Also it's never going to work because the likes of say, David Coote or Antony Taylor are never going to over rule a more experienced ref like Michael Oliver in the VAR room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withes_shin Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 This is how decisions are made: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 On 09/01/2024 at 21:22, Davkaus said: As @MrBlack says, the guy who should matter didn't think it was, until his colleague spent a minute watching it in slow motion then publicly told him "I think you made a clear and obvious mistake and you need to go and have another look". He should have stuck to his guns, but when that recommendation is made it is essentially a public correction from VAR to the ref "you've got it so wrong it surpasses the threshold for me to intervene". The process is utterly ****. it pisses me off that they're shit both ways The ref here is stood next to it, sees no issue. His mate tells him to check it. Ben Mee, potential leg breaker, ref stood next to it, looking at it, and needs his mate to check it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 11 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 11 (edited) I've got no problem with them being told to check things like that, but clearly we're still in this shit situation where refs feel obliged to overturn their decision if they're being told to check. Probably because of the high bar/clear and obvious bollocks. The ref in the middle should be free to review his own decision and make his own mind up. If he's been told to check this he shouldn't be thinking "I must be wrong so I'm going to change it" He should be free to say "yeah I've seen it again and I'm happy with my original decision" Edited January 11 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 21 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I've got no problem with them being told to check things like that, but clearly we're still in this shit situation where refs feel obliged to overturn their decision if they're being told to check. Probably because of the high bar/clear and obvious bollocks. The ref in the middle should be free to review his own decision and make his own mind up. If he's been told to check this he shouldn't be thinking "I must be wrong so I'm going to change it" He should be free to say "yeah I've seen it again and I'm happy with my original decision" Instead we have to go through this time wasting farce of the ref being told to review it, everyone knows it’s going to be overturned but we have to wait to pretend it was the onfield ref’s decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted January 11 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11 That's why the ref should be able review an incident themself, unprovoked. Now, the ref probably wouldn't have decided to review that one specifically because there was no sign of any error, but that's where manager/captain challenges could come in - then the ref would review without bias (although admittedly that probably opens up a whole other minefield). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted January 11 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11 Stick it on the big screen, not sure why they don't tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted January 11 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11 54 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I've got no problem with them being told to check things like that, but clearly we're still in this shit situation where refs feel obliged to overturn their decision if they're being told to check. Probably because of the high bar/clear and obvious bollocks. The ref in the middle should be free to review his own decision and make his own mind up. If he's been told to check this he shouldn't be thinking "I must be wrong so I'm going to change it" He should be free to say "yeah I've seen it again and I'm happy with my original decision" I agree. This is why I think a "Challenge" type system for everything outside of offsides/goal line could work. Where each team can challenge decisions x amount of times a game (something sensible like 2 or 3 i dunno). That way the ref wouldn't be reviewing decisions based on input from other referees. Team challenges a decision VAR team set the monitor up or whatever they do Ref goes to monitor and reviews the decision with no input from anyone else Wouldn't be a perfect system as i'm sure it would be abused in some ways, to be frank I haven't sat and thought about all the pros and cons of it. But I like the idea of removing outside influence from ref's decisions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 20 minutes ago, tinker said: Stick it on the big screen, not sure why they don't tbh. crowd trouble there's enough moaning and groaning with VAR already, can you imagine the outrage if that DCL red card was at goodison and they showed it on the big screen? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: crowd trouble there's enough moaning and groaning with VAR already, can you imagine the outrage if that DCL red card was at goodison and they showed it on the big screen? Maybe that would be motivation for the refs to get better. The protection they get is ridiculous. Never have to explain themselves, VAR mates covering for them.... bollocks the lot of them. Edited January 11 by jimmygreaves 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan95 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I've got no problem with them being told to check things like that, but clearly we're still in this shit situation where refs feel obliged to overturn their decision if they're being told to check. Probably because of the high bar/clear and obvious bollocks. The ref in the middle should be free to review his own decision and make his own mind up. If he's been told to check this he shouldn't be thinking "I must be wrong so I'm going to change it" He should be free to say "yeah I've seen it again and I'm happy with my original decision" The only one that springs to mind where a ref has gone to the monitor and then stuck to his original decision was for our penalty v Palace this season (thankfully). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted January 11 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11 (edited) 4 hours ago, villa4europe said: crowd trouble there's enough moaning and groaning with VAR already, can you imagine the outrage if that DCL red card was at goodison and they showed it on the big screen? I don't buy it, possible crowd trouble is just an excuse and if it did happen its all on cctv just ban the idiots, that would soon cut it out. The whole VAR mess would be minimal, like it is in Rugby and other sports. The real problem is the FA can't run a bath let alone the refs who are becoming the stars of the show, they should be seamless. Edited January 11 by tinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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