General Election 2017

[MakemineVanilla]

Any thoughts on Labour's so-called 'garden tax', anyone?

[villaglint]

27 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Initially it will though. The pound has dropped already since the general election was announced. 

The pound has dropped because we have a 2 year time limit to negotiate our exit from EU. The leader of our country has decided to spend 2/3 months of that period focusing on campaigning in a domestic election which the markets if not the general public know will have zero impact on negotiations. 

Markets surmise that is a dumb decision which has a negative impact on value of the pound. 

Sure is funny that she keeps telling everyone she is strong and stable but every decision she makes makes the pound at least weaker and more volatile. 

[hippo]

9 minutes ago, peterms said:

Labour have been following what you describe as the Crosby approach for 20 years or more.

In fact, one criticism was that they became so infatuated with focus groups that their policies narrowed to what would appeal to a very narrow stratum of the electorate in places like Peterborough, and so they lost the loyalty of the larger part of their former core support, who had been taken for granted because Mandelson believed they had "nowhere else to go".

As a result, Labour continually lost both voters and members from 1997 onwards, and the rebuilding job bequeathed by the Blairites is massive.

Crosby I don't believe has any input to policy. He just runs the campaign(s). 

[hippo]

9 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Any thoughts on Labour's so-called 'garden tax', anyone?

Don't see it happening. After the poll tax riots etc - I don't see anyone making any drastic changes there. 

[PaulC]

11 minutes ago, villaglint said:

The pound has dropped because we have a 2 year time limit to negotiate our exit from EU. The leader of our country has decided to spend 2/3 months of that period focusing on campaigning in a domestic election which the markets if not the general public know will have zero impact on negotiations. 

Markets surmise that is a dumb decision which has a negative impact on value of the pound. 

Sure is funny that she keeps telling everyone she is strong and stable but every decision she makes makes the pound at least weaker and more volatile. 

No it dropped again since the polls have got closer. A new govt would cause further instability short-term anyway. 

[jackbauer24]

I know this statement will rile some people up but in my experience, Tory voters tell me they're voting Tory because they will lose this money or that money from Corbyn policies. Labour voters tell me they're voting Labour because they want more funding in education or policing or the NHS. Basically people voting Tory tell me how a Labour government would effect THEM, those voting Labour tell me how a Labour government would help SOCIETY.

When me and my partner discuss politics, we talk of what is right and what is fair, we never talk about our own personal bank accounts. We may or may not be marginally worse off if a Labour governnent came to power, I highly doubt we'd be better off, but I'd still be happy living in a country that is attempting to look after everyone rather than the privileged few. Your life experiences will dictate your ideology but I have to question anyone who can look themselves in a mirror and be happy knowing that their bank account is more important than the lives of millions of other people on the breadline, being unfairly assessed for disability benefits, waiting in underfunded hospitals for ever cancelled operations whilst their kids go to a school that has run out of money for supplies and is letting support staff go, to return home (from the food bank) to find it has been burgled but there are no police available to investigate... ok, highly melodramatic but you get my point.

I'm yet to meet a Tory supporter (including in my own family) who isn't basically selfish. Doesn't mean they/you are horrible people, it just means that is one of their traits. My uncle is Tory, lovely guy but fundamentally he is way more interested in his bank account than whether his niece's and nephew's kids have a good education as he doesn't see the wider picture, just what effects him.

[PaulC]

1 minute ago, jackbauer24 said:

I know this statement will rile some people up but in my experience, Tory voters tell me they're voting Tory because they will lose this money or that money from Corbyn policies. Labour voters tell me they're voting Labour because they want more funding in education or policing or the NHS. Basically people voting Tory tell me how a Labour government would effect THEM, those voting Labour tell me how a Labour government would help SOCIETY.

When me and my partner discuss politics, we talk of what is right and what is fair, we never talk about our own personal bank accounts. We may or may not be marginally worse off if a Labour governnent came to power, I highly doubt we'd be better off, but I'd still be happy living in a country that is attempting to look after everyone rather than the privileged few. Your life experiences will dictate your ideology but I have to question anyone who can look themselves in a mirror and be happy knowing that their bank account is more important than the lives of millions of other people on the breadline, being unfairly assessed for disability benefits, waiting in underfunded hospitals for ever cancelled operations whilst their kids go to a school that has run out of money for supplies and is letting support staff go, to return home (from the food bank) to find it has been burgled but there are no police available to investigate... ok, highly melodramatic but you get my point.

I'm yet to meet a Tory supporter (including in my own family) who isn't basically selfish. Doesn't mean they/you are horrible people, it just means that is one of their traits. My uncle is Tory, lovely guy but fundamentally he is way more interested in his bank account than whether his niece's and nephew's kids have a good education as he doesn't see the wider picture, just what effects him.

Very true but then again I think of my brother who is a die hard socialist, union guy but  owns three houses. Either you are a true socialist and live like one or you are a hypocrite. 

[Demitri_C]

14 minutes ago, hippo said:

Don't see it happening. After the poll tax riots etc - I don't see anyone making any drastic changes there. 

Thats just you speculating though hippo. Lets say it does go through then what? 

The thing is why isnt this being publised like some of the tory policies are? I think this garden tax is absolutely ridiculous and a completely stupid idea 

 

[Davkaus]

Absolutely shameless.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/05/london-attack-isis-claims-responsibility-victims-named-live-updates?page=with:block-59352a5ce4b0be3ed1923166#block-59352a5ce4b0be3ed1923166

Quote

 

In the clip recorded for broadcasters, the reporter mentioned Dick’s comments and then asked Theresa May if she regretted presiding over cuts that saw police numbers fall by 20,000. May replied:

The commissioner of the Metropolitan police has said that the Met is well resourced, and they are, and that they have very powerful counter-terrorism capabilities, and they do. We have protected counter-terrorism policing budgets. We have also provided funding for an increase in the number of armed police officers. Since 2015 we have protected overall police budgets, and that’s despite the fact that Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour party in the House of Commons suggested that police budgets could be cut.

But it’s also about the powers that we give to the police. We have given increased powers to the police to be able to deal with terrorists, powers which Jeremy Corbyn has boasted he has always opposed.

 

 

[hippo]

6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Thats just you speculating though hippo. Lets say it does go through then what? 

The thing is why isnt this being publised like some of the tory policies are? I think this garden tax is absolutely ridiculous and a completely stupid idea 

 

If it does go through - I doubt my poll tax will go up to £4k ! 

The manifesto only mentions a review - a garden tax isn't a firm proposal in the manifesto - probably why it hasn't received much mileage.

 ‘review into reforming council tax and business rates and consider new options such as a land value tax',

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by hippo

[Wainy316]

You may be slightly worth off based on tax paid but then you'll make savings on your utility bills, rail fares and the chance to avoid being hit with a £100k medical bill if you're unlucky enough to get run over or something.

[PaulC]

2 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

You may be slightly worth off based on tax paid but then you'll make savings on your utility bills, rail fares and the chance to avoid being hit with a £100k medical bill if you're unlucky enough to get run over or something.

The third bit isn't true. 

[meregreen]

45 minutes ago, peterms said:

Labour have been following what you describe as the Crosby approach for 20 years or more.

In fact, one criticism was that they became so infatuated with focus groups that their policies narrowed to what would appeal to a very narrow stratum of the electorate in places like Peterborough, and so they lost the loyalty of the larger part of their former core support, who had been taken for granted because Mandelson believed they had "nowhere else to go".

As a result, Labour continually lost both voters and members from 1997 onwards, and the rebuilding job bequeathed by the Blairites is massive.

You do realise they are the largest Party by membership in Europe.

[meregreen]

13 minutes ago, PaulC said:

The third bit isn't true. 

Yet

[peterms]

5 minutes ago, meregreen said:

You do realise they are the largest Party by membership in Europe.

Yes, I meant loss of party members until the revival under Corbyn, sorry not to make that clear.

[villaglint]

25 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Thats just you speculating though hippo. Lets say it does go through then what? 

The thing is why isnt this being publised like some of the tory policies are? I think this garden tax is absolutely ridiculous and a completely stupid idea 

 

Well it is being reported on by all the Tory press and nobody else because it isn't a policy in the manifesto what is talked about is a commitment to making the system fairer and the Tory press have leapt on a consultation paper written a few years back and said this will be the policy.

Its the usual smear stuff which will arrive by the van load in the next few days. 

Edited June 5, 2017 by villaglint

[hippo]

10 minutes ago, villaglint said:

Well it is being reported on by all the Tory press and nobody else because it isn't a policy in the manifesto what is talked about is a commitment to making the system fairer and the Tory press have leapt on a consultation paper written a few years back and said this will be the policy.

Its the usual smear stuff which will arrive by the van load in the next few days. 

and the tories have worked out costings for it . ! ;LOL 

[omariqy]

No doubt in my mind that the Tories will win on Thursday.

[hippo]

Just now, omariqy said:

No doubt in my mind that the Tories will win on Thursday.

Yes - only the scale of the victory thats in doubt.

 

[meregreen]

32 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Very true but then again I think of my brother who is a die hard socialist, union guy but  owns three houses. Either you are a true socialist and live like one or you are a hypocrite. 

You misunderstand Socialism, it is about helping others other than yourself who are less well off, to have a decent life. It isn't about stopping people improving their own lives. Social justice can go hand in hand with economic prosperity. I have enormous respect for people like your brother who have done well for themselves, and yet have the moral compass and compassion to lend a hand to others.