ciggiesnbeer Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheAuthority said: He's a bellend but that's a bit far! Plenty of CEO's who are more odious than him (sadly.) Just look at the oil and gas industry and in recent popular culture, Harvey Weinstein, Elizabeth Holmes, and the crown of them all Bernie Madoff. Sadly whenever someone builds a company (or several) and has a strong vision then tend to forget about workers rights and laws seem an inconvenience to them. A lot of major industrial success stories (Ford, Rockefeller) fall victim to this and end up on a fascist bent. I meant unfit ethically and (imho) legally. I am sure you know this stuff but for UK residents. Public company CEO's in the USA (and officers of public companies of which I have been one) are heavily regulated after the 2008 crisis. We cannot make ad hoc forward looking statements that influence the stock price for example. Something Elon Musk does yearly and then attacks the SEC when it applies the rules to him that apply to every other public company CEO. Government contractors in the USA are regulated in the political activities they can partake in for obvious reasons. They are not meant to be partisan companies that are receiving everyone's tax dollars cannot be out there insulting half of its funders , customers or political opponents . They cannot make political contributions for example. https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/federal-government-contractors/ Elon Musk bends or breaks these regulations in different ways. And for what? So he can shoot his mouth off on the issue of the day? His first duty is to the shareholders of his companies. he betrays that duty everyday with his behaviour. So thats what I meant by unfit. He has been successful no doubt, in large part with the aid of US state and federal tax dollars. But he is not an ethical businessman and has no business being a public company CEO or Federal Government contractor. A CEO or government contractor who acts against his shareholders & customers interests? Thats unforgivable. Edited October 4, 2022 by ciggiesnbeer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted October 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 4, 2022 10 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said: His first duty is to the shareholders of his companies. he betrays that duty everyday with his behaviour. So thats what I meant by unfit. He has been successful no doubt, in large part with the aid of US state and federal tax dollars. But he is not an ethical businessman and has no business being a public company CEO or Federal Government contractor. A CEO or government contractor who acts against his shareholders & customers interests? Thats unforgivable. I am in some way playing Devil's advocate because I agree with what you say: However I also believe the arguments he had against Wall Street had some validity a few years ago. The majority shareholders of Tesla were Wall Street "players" who were shorting and longing the stock at the same time and essentially making it volatile (it was also volatile because Musk would announce targets and then the company would fail to meet them.) But, it was made far more volatile by the day traders. Also factor in it's also a sexy stock (10 years ago who was pushing EV's as much?) and has an eccentric, proven successful leader in Musk (PayPal.) He then realized that he could also make the stock go up and down by his twitter account, and he began to act as though he was getting his own back on those who he felt were negatively impacting his company. Reckless? Irresponsible? Unethical? Probably all of those things and more. But I can see where he was coming from at least for a time. Sadly in the last few years he seems to be more isolated from reality and if a "Howard Hughesesque" decline into madness happened I wouldn't be surprised. He's an extremely intelligent and successful man, and ultimately very flawed (as we all are to some degree.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheAuthority said: However I also believe the arguments he had against Wall Street had some validity a few years ago. The majority shareholders of Tesla were Wall Street "players" who were shorting and longing the stock at the same time and essentially making it volatile (it was also volatile because Musk would announce targets and then the company would fail to meet them.) But, it was made far more volatile by the day traders. Also factor in it's also a sexy stock (10 years ago who was pushing EV's as much?) and has an eccentric, proven successful leader in Musk (PayPal.) Thats fair and well put. Good point. He had good reason. But enough revenge already. I dont want to denigrate the mans achievements either. I mean humanity is definitely a net better off because of his leadership of his companies. There is no denying it. I just wish he wasnt such an ass about it tbh. Edited October 4, 2022 by ciggiesnbeer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 He's essentially pissed off the largest forthcoming EV market in Europe. He needs to clean up his act fast in order to save the few fans he has left in Ukraine, and with support in his 'base' markets like the Netherlands and Norway for Ukraine polling at over 90% I can't see this being good for Tesla.. There are companies that now produce cars of almost the same quality, Elon has the better charging network but at this rate he'll lose customers for being a bellend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: Tesla Hopefully they go the way of Nokia. I can see it happen, their cars are not the best EV's anymore, far from it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 6 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Hopefully they go the way of Nokia. I can see it happen, their cars are not the best EV's anymore, far from it. They were first to market hence their dominance, they have never been the best. The usual suspects in the automotive world will swallow them up over the next few years. I suspect Elon knows this hence why he’s sold billions of dollars of his Tesla stocks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 4, 2022 Soooooooo, any news on Russia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 The ding dong carried on a bit longer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted October 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 4, 2022 Elon definitely displays an inability to judge the room. It's what makes him innovative and dangerous. Is Putin really going to testfire a nuke? That's provocative, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 27 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Elon definitely displays an inability to judge the room. It's what makes him innovative and dangerous. Is Putin really going to testfire a nuke? That's provocative, no? Is he really going to nuke his own land, albeit near the Ukraine border? Sounds a bit counter productive to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post magnkarl Posted October 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 4, 2022 Kasparov is pure class. He's been in opposition to Putin for his whole adult life. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Genie said: They were first to market hence their dominance, they have never been the best. The usual suspects in the automotive world will swallow them up over the next few years. I suspect Elon knows this hence why he’s sold billions of dollars of his Tesla stocks. Toyota have always had big R&D and they have massive production capacity and sales networks. I'd bet on them. Tesla are after the self drive cars so their data gathering is a big advantage. But nothing a quick partnership with Google doesn't solve for the existing companies Anyway, this isn't about EVs and Elon Musk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jareth Posted October 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 4, 2022 23 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Kasparov is pure class. He's been in opposition to Putin for his whole adult life. Everyone thinks he's Russian, but he's actually Czech, mate. 1 1 9 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 51 minutes ago, Jareth said: Everyone thinks he's Russian, but he's actually Czech, mate. You sunk my battleship. Did I do it right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 6 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: Crazy Wow, hit by something from somewhere and immediately opens the door and runs at them. Proper big boy shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 So in 6 hours Ukraine recaptured the few kilometers that Wagner and Russia spent thousands of men capturing around Bakhmut. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, Genie said: Wow, hit by something from somewhere and immediately opens the door and runs at them. Proper big boy shit. He goes to the humvee which gets hit by a tank shell whilst reversing and gets out and runs... into the cover of the woods. The round comes in from the left side so he's doing the right thing and running away. Not sure how the gunner or driver ended up because it looks a direct hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 4, 2022 Calm assessment of the nuclear threat. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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