TRO Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 9 minutes ago, Eastie said: Experienced managers like pulis and Hughes have relied on whelan for years and he's played nearly 300 premier games as a regular starter plus has over 80 international caps , he's not spectacaular but similar to Kevin Richardson for me In that he will do his job and provide that old head in midfield to allow the likes of lansbury and hourihane to flourish . He could well be a key player in the season ahead and I think will win over many of his critics. spot on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, vreitti said: I suspect Whelan coming in is dependent on Veretout leaving, and in that case I'd much rather keep Veretout. I'd happily trade Whelan for both Bacuna and Gardner though. I don't see Vertout/Bacuna or Gardner doing what Whelan can do 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 15 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said: Both Adomah and Green have injury problems and between them wont play all the league games. What would plan b be? Hmmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 I still feel we should utilise the loan market to our advantage and pick up a decent young player or two from the premiership big guns - even more so if money is tight on transfer fees. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted July 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2017 I agree @Eastie ; we have a solid Championship squad, but a few PL quality players (Terry is one) and we will be much better off. Either a youngster like Boro did with Bamford et al, or an older player from a mid table side... Everton seem to be spending big, maybe they would let a player or two go on the cheap. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, TRO said: I don't see Vertout/Bacuna or Gardner doing what Whelan can do I agree, and I never said that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 15, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2017 23 minutes ago, TRO said: I am hoping we get Whelan or a whelan type of player who can help us contain the opposition to gain control. I agree with the overall point that another defensive midfielder is needed but I'd hoped for someone better than Whelan who at his best was average and now is, well, imo the wrong side of average. Concerned that if Whelan is signed the defensive spine of the team will lack pace and energy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, striker said: I agree with the overall point that another defensive midfielder is needed but I'd hoped for someone better than Whelan who at his best was average and now is, well, imo the wrong side of average. Concerned that if Whelan is signed the defensive spine of the team will lack pace and energy. Whelan certainly doesn't lack energy and nor does he need great pace - he would be fine for us in a similar role to that Barry has done for Everton . Solid if unspectacular but the sort of player you need to allow your more attacking midfielders to flourish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 15, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2017 26 minutes ago, Eastie said: Experienced managers like pulis and Hughes have relied on whelan for years and he's played nearly 300 premier games as a regular starter plus has over 80 international caps , he's not spectacaular but similar to Kevin Richardson for me In that he will do his job and provide that old head in midfield to allow the likes of lansbury and hourihane to flourish . He could well be a key player in the season ahead and I think will win over many of his critics. Fair post and those managers did rely on him for years but Hughes is keen to sell him now which should tell you a lot. Not convinced at all that these type of signings are the way to go for Villa. You also have to consider that most of the 1st team squad are Championship ready now so Villa could afford to either bring a younger DM in on loan with a view to buy to add more stamina and energy or indeed give Lyden a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, striker said: Fair post and those managers did rely on him for years but Hughes is keen to sell him now which should tell you a lot. Not convinced at all that these type of signings are the way to go for Villa. You also have to consider that most of the 1st team squad are Championship ready now so Villa could afford to either bring a younger DM in on loan with a view to buy to add more stamina and energy or indeed give Lyden a chance. I don't think Lyden is ready personally and would be a gamble , Hughes is prepared to let whelan go due to the players now at his disposal - whelan for £1m would do a job in helping us up - once we get up it's a whole new ball game and we would have the finances to be able to upgrade several positions . The likes of terry , whelan , Elmo are just short term fixes as the only aim is promotion for now - all 3 would help greatly to achieve that aim in my opinion . i remember when GT took over and the knockers were out in force at signings like Steve sims, but it's just a short term fix we need at this point . Edited July 15, 2017 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 15, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, Eastie said: Whelan certainly doesn't lack energy and nor does he need great pace - he would be fine for us in a similar role to that Barry has done for Everton . Solid if unspectacular but the sort of player you need to allow your more attacking midfielders to flourish. Reading some comments on here from Stoke forums I've noted Stoke fans stating it's probably time to let Whelan go. Doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence that Villa are going to be reliant on two aging DMs who are going to be expected to stand up to a more physical league with more games played than the Premiership. Jedinak found it tough enough last season and that was a season ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, striker said: Reading some comments on here from Stoke forums I've noted Stoke fans stating it's probably time to let Whelan go. Doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence that Villa are going to be reliant on two aging DMs who are going to be expected to stand up to a more physical league with more games played than the Premiership. Jedinak found it tough enough last season and that was a season ago. I certainly wouldn't play both in same team - it's one or the other for me . To play both would be far too negative, although jedinak missed a lot of games with various niggles and can't be relied on to play a full season . Far better whelan than Gardner Edited July 15, 2017 by Eastie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 15, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Eastie said: I don't think Lyden is ready personally and would be a gamble , Hughes is prepared to let whelan go due to the players now at his disposal - whelan for £1m would do a job in helping us up - once we get up it's a whole new ball game and we would have the finances to be able to upgrade several positions . The likes of terry , whelan , Elmo are just short term fixes as the only aim is promotion for now - all 3 would help greatly to achieve that aim in my opinion . You mean like Jedinak was a short term fix last season to get Villa promoted? For me Bruce is taking more of a gamble with short termism signings like Elmo, Terry and possibly Whelan rather than looking for good quality loans for instance or younger players chomping at the bit wanting to play. As I've stated in a previous post Villa's first team squad should be Championship ready now attuned to what is needed to gain promotion and shouldnt be spending more money on players heading towards the end of their careers. One final point on this before I opp out. If Villa achieve promotion and at this moment in time I feel that's a big If with questions still hanging over the manager's ability to get the present Villa squad to gel, with these short termism signings Villa are once again going to be faced with another massive rebuilding job to do once back in the Premiership and look how that worked out before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, striker said: I agree with the overall point that another defensive midfielder is needed but I'd hoped for someone better than Whelan who at his best was average and now is, well, imo the wrong side of average. Concerned that if Whelan is signed the defensive spine of the team will lack pace and energy. I respectfully disagree That type of player who is like Richardson and Townsend,Peter Reid, despite having a ( on the surface) defensive tendency......they do there buisness higher up the pitch and effectively enhance the offensive side of our game......when they win the ball higher up the forwards have a much shorter distance to go. It can be a bit of a paradox this......Good defensive midfielders are actually the source of attack......They change the dynamic. Conversely an all out attacking player, who keeps losing the ball and doesn't win it back sends the rest of the players deep......you have to have players who can hold their ground. Whelan can do that. I watch DM's carefully.....as you might gather amongst my favourite players.......I absolutely love watching a good one like Makelele & Seedorf( who could do both ) Just an addendum when you have players of Sid Cowans and Alex Cropley's calibre........who could scheme AND win the ball, you are in absolute clover....Unfortunately our stature has slipped and we are in a more difficult position to attract the complete players, so most of ours are limited ( i mean that respectfully) ( John Terry is an exception) When the manager now picks the midfield the dilemma is some can do some things and not others and vice versa.....and when you swap them around you are "as best burnt as scolded". Its only as we get gradually better as a team we will be able to attract the more complete player. In the meantime UTV Edited July 15, 2017 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, striker said: You mean like Jedinak was a short term fix last season to get Villa promoted? For me Bruce is taking more of a gamble with short termism signings like Elmo, Terry and possibly Whelan rather than looking for good quality loans for instance or younger players chomping at the bit wanting to play. As I've stated in a previous post Villa's first team squad should be Championship ready now attuned to what is needed to gain promotion and shouldnt be spending more money on players heading towards the end of their careers. One final point on this before I opp out. If Villa achieve promotion and at this moment in time I feel that's a big If with questions still hanging over the manager's ability to get the present Villa squad to gel, with these short termism signings Villa are once again going to be faced with another massive rebuilding job to do once back in the Premiership and look how that worked out before. Jedinak was a decent signing but the rest of the midfield was poor - he was then out at the time lansbury and hourihane arrived and by the time we used all 3 together promotion was long gone - jedinak is a decent defensive midfielder but his passing is poor - the more decent midfield options the better this season for me . Regarding promotion wyness made clear in his radio phone in on wm a few nmonths back that the plan is to build 3 teams here , one to get up , one to consolidate in the Premiership, and one to challenge towards the upper end - I'm not sure many of the current crop would survive in the premiership where we be able to spend to upgrade . i daresay if we go up this season there will be those who think Bruce himself would maybe need to be upgraded . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, striker said: You mean like Jedinak was a short term fix last season to get Villa promoted? For me Bruce is taking more of a gamble with short termism signings like Elmo, Terry and possibly Whelan rather than looking for good quality loans for instance or younger players chomping at the bit wanting to play. As I've stated in a previous post Villa's first team squad should be Championship ready now attuned to what is needed to gain promotion and shouldnt be spending more money on players heading towards the end of their careers. One final point on this before I opp out. If Villa achieve promotion and at this moment in time I feel that's a big If with questions still hanging over the manager's ability to get the present Villa squad to gel, with these short termism signings Villa are once again going to be faced with another massive rebuilding job to do once back in the Premiership and look how that worked out before. There is no exact science to this.....young players who are well fancied want the big time, unfortunately our fall from grace has left us short of that. I understand your view and its logical However you can't scale the fourth fence on a racecourse until you have successfully negotiated the Third. Graham Taylor once explained quite eloquently to me of the thinking behind incremental building.....I asked him why he signed Steve Sims and he laughed......He said you have to sign players like that to help the young lads come to terms with the rigours and physical demands of the game......In a few seasons time it is unlikely I will be signing players like that( no disrespect to Steve Sims) As a manager their thinking will change as the dynamic of the team changes.....Steve has already said " He feels the expectation of the club is a lot to bear for some of the younger players".......This club should not be where it is, but they FEEL that responsibilty, it can be wearing/daunting. Young players at Brentford,Preston and the likes of Bristol City don't get that, maybe why the top clubs want to send them to these places, no pressure. I understand at the moment, why we are signing some of these older pro's, but I feel sure the landscape as we get better, will change. Edited July 15, 2017 by TRO 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, alreadyexists said: Bruce out! How can we expect to get promoted with a 65 year old defender. I like Gabby/I don't like Gabby! (That's about everything wrapped up, I'd let that sink in and turn around while you still can) Throw the 'it's happening' gif in there and you've got yourself a party. You forgot this...... Edited July 15, 2017 by TheStagMan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Could we get Patrick Roberts on loan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Huddlestone off to derby with a £2 million buyout clause. Surprised we weren't in for him at that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Huddlestone off to derby with a £2 million buyout clause. Surprised we weren't in for him at that price. Back to his proper starter club. I think he'd have turned us down for Derby tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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