Jas10 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 20 hours ago, jimcohen said: I am nervous too, as the league is so hard and we are still short in some key areas of the game, namely the ability to pass and keep the ball. Our possession has been poor for years now and I cant really understand it. When we dropped down to the Championship I thought, naively so, that we would dominate possession and most games and get top 6, but we regularly had under 50% of the ball against some very week teams. After Christmas when we bought CH and HL I thought that would make a difference as at their previous teams they kept the ball well and NF and BFC had good possession stats, but it made no difference. Is Brice really telling them to just play counter attacking and not worry about keeping the ball? We have one of the best squads in the league and some of the best players, why is it that we cannot play a more controlled game? I remember the first season under PL, we started away to West Ham, I was there and we kept the ball well. We all sang "We're passing the ball, we're passing the ball. We're Aston Villa, We're passing the ball." As it was such a shock, after the previous dross, that we were now playing under a manager that valued keeping the ball. The issue of course there was we had poor players relative to the league and a lot of goals were given away from individual errors and/or loss of possession within our own half from one of our own players. You need good players if you want to keep the ball. But in this league, with our current squad, surely we are good enough to do that. I want a new GK, CB, DCM, Winger and CF like most people, but also feel if we could just keep the ball, play better attacking, positive football, our current bunch are just as good, if not better than anything else in the league. Are you really telling me Brighton or Huddersfield had a better starting 11 than us? No, they just played better football. As a team. probably with lower expectations, so less pressure, but they achieved what we couldn't with what in my opinion was a fair inferior squad and starting 11. I would not have one single player from either of their teams in Villa's starting 11 apart from maybe Knockaert and Stockdale. And from Newcastle too, I would only want Lascelles instead of NB, Shelvey for CH and Gayle for Hogan, but the last one would be close. But even if you think a few others would get into our team, you get my point. Our players are good enough. Its our tactics and style of play that seems to be killing us. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 23 hours ago, jimcohen said: I am nervous too, as the league is so hard and we are still short in some key areas of the game, namely the ability to pass and keep the ball. Our possession has been poor for years now and I cant really understand it. When we dropped down to the Championship I thought, naively so, that we would dominate possession and most games and get top 6, but we regularly had under 50% of the ball against some very week teams. After Christmas when we bought CH and HL I thought that would make a difference as at their previous teams they kept the ball well and NF and BFC had good possession stats, but it made no difference. Is Brice really telling them to just play counter attacking and not worry about keeping the ball? We have one of the best squads in the league and some of the best players, why is it that we cannot play a more controlled game? I remember the first season under PL, we started away to West Ham, I was there and we kept the ball well. We all sang "We're passing the ball, we're passing the ball. We're Aston Villa, We're passing the ball." As it was such a shock, after the previous dross, that we were now playing under a manager that valued keeping the ball. The issue of course there was we had poor players relative to the league and a lot of goals were given away from individual errors and/or loss of possession within our own half from one of our own players. You need good players if you want to keep the ball. But in this league, with our current squad, surely we are good enough to do that. I want a new GK, CB, DCM, Winger and CF like most people, but also feel if we could just keep the ball, play better attacking, positive football, our current bunch are just as good, if not better than anything else in the league. Are you really telling me Brighton or Huddersfield had a better starting 11 than us? No, they just played better football. As a team. probably with lower expectations, so less pressure, but they achieved what we couldn't with what in my opinion was a fair inferior squad and starting 11. I would not have one single player from either of their teams in Villa's starting 11 apart from maybe Knockaert and Stockdale. And from Newcastle too, I would only want Lascelles instead of NB, Shelvey for CH and Gayle for Hogan, but the last one would be close. But even if you think a few others would get into our team, you get my point. Our players are good enough. Its our tactics and style of play that seems to be killing us. But you cant really come in here with such logic. Our Master has 4 promotions, he is the chosen one. Our savior, he guided us from the brink of relegation to the safety of mid table. He builds from the back making us inpeneterable......... did I forget something? Oh yes "...... he needs a pre-season and tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime...." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 The thing is, Bruce is going nowhere. The board back him to be in the job come August and believe he can win us promotion. No amount of wanting him out will make a difference, it will only serve to frustrate you and make you miserable. If, he does fail to rectify our faults then the board have a decision to make. If it's clear nothing's changed then he will have to go. The other thing is, whoever replaces him still doesn't guarantee success. Whether you are pro Bruce, anti Bruce or still not quite sure, Id expect everyone can agree that AVFC needs some stability right now. Logically, Bruce has everything he needs to get us up. His own players, a preaseason, backing of the board if not all fans. It's down to him and the players now to go for it. He could fail, he could succeed. He's not going to be replaced before the first game so why not accept it and see what happens? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 14 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: But you cant really come in here with such logic. Our Master has 4 promotions, he is the chosen one. Our savior, he guided us from the brink of relegation to the safety of mid table. He builds from the back making us inpeneterable......... did I forget something? Oh yes "...... he needs a pre-season and tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime...." Also, spouting on about 4 promotions in 20 doesn't really give a clear picture does it? How many seasons of those 20 did he manage in the premier league? (A league you can't get promoted from). 9 seasons in the top flight is the answer. So 4 in 20 should be 4 in 11, not perfect by a long shot but not as bad as made out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 31 minutes ago, It's Your Round said: Also, spouting on about 4 promotions in 20 doesn't really give a clear picture does it? How many seasons of those 20 did he manage in the premier league? (A league you can't get promoted from). 9 seasons in the top flight is the answer. So 4 in 20 should be 4 in 11, not perfect by a long shot but not as bad as made out. Like I say he is the answer - The chosen one - a sure thing - A God of the Ch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: Like I say he is the answer - The chosen one - a sure thing - A God of the Ch Glad you're on board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted June 3, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2017 54 minutes ago, It's Your Round said: Also, spouting on about 4 promotions in 20 doesn't really give a clear picture does it? How many seasons of those 20 did he manage in the premier league? (A league you can't get promoted from). 9 seasons in the top flight is the answer. So 4 in 20 should be 4 in 11, not perfect by a long shot but not as bad as made out. Also need to factor in only full seasons, if Wagners only full season is being stated as a 100% success rate, then Bruce deserves the same caveat. So the number is reduced further presumably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Grasshopper said: Like I say he is the answer - The chosen one - a sure thing - A God of the Ch churlish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 2 hours ago, alreadyexists said: Also need to factor in only full seasons, if Wagners only full season is being stated as a 100% success rate, then Bruce deserves the same caveat. So the number is reduced further presumably? I don't think @Grasshopper appreciated how close to a 100% record Bruce is for FULL seasons in the CHAMPIONSHIP. A couple of years in league 1, more than a few years in the prem league and a number of part of seasons in the championship too. i think, I'm not 100%, but I think he may be 4 for 4 in terms of full seasons and being promoted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 4 hours ago, It's Your Round said: The thing is, Bruce is going nowhere. The board back him to be in the job come August and believe he can win us promotion. No amount of wanting him out will make a difference, it will only serve to frustrate you and make you miserable. If, he does fail to rectify our faults then the board have a decision to make. If it's clear nothing's changed then he will have to go. The other thing is, whoever replaces him still doesn't guarantee success. Whether you are pro Bruce, anti Bruce or still not quite sure, Id expect everyone can agree that AVFC needs some stability right now. Logically, Bruce has everything he needs to get us up. His own players, a preaseason, backing of the board if not all fans. It's down to him and the players now to go for it. He could fail, he could succeed. He's not going to be replaced before the first game so why not accept it and see what happens? That's not how footy fans roll is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, Dave J said: That's not how footy fans roll is it? Each to their own mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 13 hours ago, It's Your Round said: Each to their own mate. Of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Bruce will get us promoted this season simply because that new kit stinks of glorious promotion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, Jareth said: Bruce will get us promoted this season simply because that new kit stinks of glorious promotion. I thought the same when I looked at it, was too embarassed to post my thought haha! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 On 2017-6-2 at 18:02, Michael118 said: The difference between us and Newcastle is they have at least 5 players who are far and away too good for this division - Clark, So a bloke that was laughed at when playing in one of the worst teams in PL history is "far and away to good for the championship" On 2017-6-2 at 18:02, Michael118 said: Shelvey, Gayle, Clark, Ritchie and Elliot. All players I would be happy if I was managing a midtable Premier League team. Shelvey got relegated with Newcastle. Clark got relegated with us. Gayle got bombed out by a team that just escaped relegation. Hardly all midtable PL quality. On 2017-6-2 at 18:02, Michael118 said: In comparison our squad is filled with Championship quality players (Chester, Taylor, Now you're just being silly. On 2017-6-2 at 18:02, Michael118 said: or players who at the very least have big question marks over whether you'd consider them Premier League quality (Kodjia and Hourihane). So Dwight Gayle, a guy that got bombed out the PL is PL quality, but there are question marks over kodjia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 We are between 7/1 and 8/1 for the title next season with bookmakers and they don't often get things like this too wrong. I hope they get this one very right (I would take 2nd place if that was really necessary)! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 On 03/06/2017 at 06:52, Dave J said: I fail to see other than blind faith - I include myself in this - what on earth any of us can see in Bruce that might lend us to think we can get automatic promotion next season? We're settled. We have the right owner who has shown an overwhelming willingness to invest. We have a manager who has gotten out of this division before with less than what he has now. People might not like his style, and I certainly don't think we'll end up finishing top 6 in the Premier League under Bruce, but he can get us out of the championship. The awful culture of the Lerner era continues to dissipate. We have a good squad full of capable players who have now had some time to gel, and given how turbulent the last 3 or 4 years have been, that can't be understated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) double post Edited June 4, 2017 by ThunderPower_14 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 8 hours ago, ThunderPower_14 said: We're settled. We have the right owner who has shown an overwhelming willingness to invest. We have a manager who has gotten out of this division before with less than what he has now. People might not like his style, and I certainly don't think we'll end up finishing top 6 in the Premier League under Bruce, but he can get us out of the championship. The awful culture of the Lerner era continues to dissipate. We have a good squad full of capable players who have now had some time to gel, and given how turbulent the last 3 or 4 years have been, that can't be understated. That's the thing about change - it's impossible to see coming if you've suffered the same thing season in and season out. However until it happens we will simply be optimists - but really all the signs are there, as you have pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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