Scott Hogan

[Dave J]

19 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I'd like you to find any post where I championed Gabby's cause.

I may have defended him on one or two issues, but I haven't wanted him anywhere near the team for years.

I may have gone as far as to suggest he played vs Blues because he always scored against them, but even that was tongue in cheek.

 

Edit: and to clarify, it's not that I can't stand Hogan. Quite the opposite, I like the guy. I like his attitude, he always gives 100% and his heart is in the right place. He's just shit at football.

My apologies I will take back championed and replace with defending?  him in many of our exchanges re: you know who ? Who I was proved correct by all along.

My only question would be this - he was rubbish much much longer than Scott has ever been for us - but you feel you can defend him on one or two issues - yes I acknowledge you applaud Scott's attitude and work rate, as do I.

And for once I really wish there was another player  to use as a counter balance to your assessment of Scott as being "shit" 

For what it's worth I believe he will leave Aston Villa and once more score goals at this level - Scott is far from being the only culpable person in this equation imo 

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Dave J said:

My apologies I will take back championed and replace with defending?  him in many of our exchanges re: you know who ? Who I was proved correct by all along.

My only question would be this - he was rubbish much much longer than Scott has ever been for us - but you feel you can defend him on one or two issues - yes I acknowledge you applaud Scott's attitude and work rate, as do I.

And for once I really wish there was another player  to use as a counter balance to your assessment of Scott as being "shit" 

For what it's worth I believe he will leave Aston Villa and once more score goals at this level - Scott is far from being the only culpable person in this equation imo 

You're tying yourself up in knots here.

The only thing I defended Gabby on, from memory, was that he was ONCE a good player for us. And that he deserved a bit of a send off when he left.

That's it. It's a long long time since I defended Gabby on his inclusion in a matchday squad. So you were proved correct that he should no longer play for us, but I don't think many people ever disagreed with you on that.

 

So it really has absolutely nothing to do with Hogan. Me defending Gabby on a couple of issue has no bearing on my opinion of Hogan and I'm not sure why you're insisting on connecting the two.
They're both not good enough to play for Aston Villa.

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

You're tying yourself up in knots here.

The only thing I defended Gabby on, from memory, was that he was ONCE a good player for us. And that he deserved a bit of a send off when he left.

That's it. It's a long long time since I defended Gabby on his inclusion in a matchday squad. So you were proved correct that he should no longer play for us, but I don't think many people ever disagreed with you on that.

 

So it really has absolutely nothing to do with Hogan. Me defending Gabby on a couple of issue has no bearing on my opinion of Hogan and I'm not sure why you're insisting on connecting the two.
They're both not good enough to play for Aston Villa.

As always Stevo - you really do believe you are always correct - I'm not going round in circles - I do apologise and wished there was another example other than Gabby to have used but I'm somewhat surprised that you cannot see how easy it is to make the link between your comments regarding Hogan and your " defending of Gabby "

But I agree that it's a futile debate to continue with - I have a good deal of empathy with Hogans circumstances - do I think he is a good footballer ? I doubt very much that we as Aston Villa fans will ever arrive at this conclusion ? No I don't - do I think that he will go elsewhere and be seen as a good player then yes I do to be truthful with you

[Harry]

Crazy to let a good player go just because he has been poorly coached at Villa. This is all down to Bruce. A better manager will get more out of Hogan and the squad in general. Sadly we have a growing back story of players deemed not good enough for Villa who turn out to be really quite good for other sides.

*Tin hat on* but the criticism some players get from the fans is beyond the pale.

[Stevo985]

11 hours ago, Dave J said:

As always Stevo - you really do believe you are always correct - I'm not going round in circles - I do apologise and wished there was another example other than Gabby to have used but I'm somewhat surprised that you cannot see how easy it is to make the link between your comments regarding Hogan and your " defending of Gabby "

As always Dave, I have no idea what you're on about.

Neither Gabby or Hogan are good enough to be striker for Aston Villa.

If you explain what else you mean by bringing Gabby into it then I can reply. Otherwise let's leave it as I haven't a clue what you're getting at.

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

As always Dave, I have no idea what you're on about.

Neither Gabby or Hogan are good enough to be striker for Aston Villa.

If you explain what else you mean by bringing Gabby into it then I can reply. Otherwise let's leave it as I haven't a clue what you're getting at.

I am genuinely surprised that you cannot see the link I am making - but yes I too feel it's probably better to leave it 

[Stevo985]

7 minutes ago, Dave J said:

I am genuinely surprised that you cannot see the link I am making

So explain what you mean!!

Dave. This is what ALWAYS happens when you post.

I make a post completely unrelated to anything you've said.
You then reply making what I consider to be a weird point.
I then reply asking what you mean.
You just say something like "oh it's not worth it" or "how can you not see what I mean?"

If you just EXPLAIN what you mean, then I can reply. Rather than have this pointless back and forth.
If you can't explain what you mean then I don't know what to tell you  

[Stevo985]

11 hours ago, Harry said:

Crazy to let a good player go just because he has been poorly coached at Villa. This is all down to Bruce. A better manager will get more out of Hogan and the squad in general. Sadly we have a growing back story of players deemed not good enough for Villa who turn out to be really quite good for other sides.

*Tin hat on* but the criticism some players get from the fans is beyond the pale.

He's not a good player.

[Dave J]

9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

So explain what you mean!!

Dave. This is what ALWAYS happens when you post.

I make a post completely unrelated to anything you've said.
You then reply making what I consider to be a weird point.
I then reply asking what you mean.
You just say something like "oh it's not worth it" or "how can you not see what I mean?"

If you just EXPLAIN what you mean, then I can reply. Rather than have this pointless back and forth.
If you can't explain what you mean then I don't know what to tell you  

No it's really better to leave it - it's not hard - but as you say it will just go back and forth and Gabby has had more than his deserved air time

[Stevo985]

9 minutes ago, Dave J said:

No it's really better to leave it - it's not hard - but as you say it will just go back and forth and Gabby has had more than his deserved air time

As I suspected, you can't explain it. You've realised your point made no sense but rather than admit it, you're just going to hide behind this "oh it's obvious, I just can't be bothered to explain" like a child. Nobody knows what you're on about, including you.

You just couldn't help bringing your obsession up in another conversation, despite it having absolutely no relevance.

You are utterly obsessed with Gabby Agbonlahor. He's gone. Let it go.

FYI you're on my ignore list now because I can't be arsed wasting my time reading your drivel every time you reply to me.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Stevo985

[villanmac]

Another + for those exalting the virtues of Dean Smith's style of play...getting this donkey to score 21 in 33 at Brentford. How?!

Edited August 29, 2018 by villanmac

[jacketspuds]

1 minute ago, villanmac said:

Another + for those exalting the virtues of Dean Smith's style of play...getting this donkey to score 21 in 33 at Brentford. How?!

Playing to his strengths I guess. Not saying I know what they are but crossing it in to the box expecting a 5'9" striker to get on the end of it is probably not ideal.

I would imagine his recent injuries haven't helped either.

Bruce has to take some responsibility for this as it seems like he just signed Hogan because of his record in that one season, despite not actually knowing how best to use him. Still wouldn't loan him out though.

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, jacketspuds said:

Playing to his strengths I guess. Not saying I know what they are but crossing it in to the box expecting a 5'9" striker to get on the end of it is probably not ideal.

I would imagine his recent injuries haven't helped either.

Bruce has to take some responsibility for this as it seems like he just signed Hogan because of his record in that one season, despite not actually knowing how best to use him. Still wouldn't loan him out though.

Bruce is to blame. But he's to blame for spending loads of money on someone who isn't very good.

Good players in the wrong system will still demonstrate their value. In the past 18 months, if Hogan was any good, he'd have shown us glimpses of what he can do.
But he hasn't. Apart from running around a lot to hassle the opposition defence, he hasn't shown himself to be good at anything.

[sne]

5 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

Playing to his strengths I guess. Not saying I know what they are but crossing it in to the box expecting a 5'9" striker to get on the end of it is probably not ideal.

I would imagine his recent injuries haven't helped either.

Bruce has to take some responsibility for this as it seems like he just signed Hogan because of his record in that one season, despite not actually knowing how best to use him. Still wouldn't loan him out though.

 

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Bruce is to blame. But he's to blame for spending loads of money on someone who isn't very good.

Good players in the wrong system will still demonstrate their value. In the past 18 months, if Hogan was any good, he'd have shown us glimpses of what he can do.
But he hasn't. Apart from running around a lot to hassle the opposition defence, he hasn't shown himself to be good at anything.

Agree with both of these if that's OK 

[jacketspuds]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Bruce is to blame. But he's to blame for spending loads of money on someone who isn't very good.

Good players in the wrong system will still demonstrate their value. In the past 18 months, if Hogan was any good, he'd have shown us glimpses of what he can do.
But he hasn't. Apart from running around a lot to hassle the opposition defence, he hasn't shown himself to be good at anything.

Exactly. Bruce's / the club's scouting consisted of "he's scored goals this season, he'll do".

[Hoof hearted]

48 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

Exactly. Bruce's / the club's scouting consisted of "he's scored goals this season, he'll do".

In fairness, the benchmark of a good striker of Hogan's ilk is goals scored.

I'm of the opinion if he plays in a two for more than one game running he will get goals for us, our current set up is not playing to his strengths so he may as well pick up a wage/ get game time elsewhere.

[Guest av1]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Bruce is to blame. But he's to blame for spending loads of money on someone who isn't very good.

Good players in the wrong system will still demonstrate their value. In the past 18 months, if Hogan was any good, he'd have shown us glimpses of what he can do.
But he hasn't. Apart from running around a lot to hassle the opposition defence, he hasn't shown himself to be good at anything.

I agree almost entirely with you, where i would slightly disagree is that Hogan has shown himself to be a more than decent striker when in a system that suits him, so he's not totally rubbish, just limited. Sure he has shown that he isn't good enough to adapt like the very best players would, but i still believe he could prove useful if we played to his strengths.

 

[villa89]

2 hours ago, villanmac said:

Another + for those exalting the virtues of Dean Smith's style of play...getting this donkey to score 21 in 33 at Brentford. How?!

Loads of players go through a purple patch of scoring, good players sustain it. Just look at  Gestede and Adomah in our recent history. Both scored plenty for a very short period but overall are cack.  

Edited August 29, 2018 by villa89

[weedman]

47 minutes ago, av1 said:

I agree almost entirely with you, where i would slightly disagree is that Hogan has shown himself to be a more than decent striker when in a system that suits him, so he's not totally rubbish, just limited. Sure he has shown that he isn't good enough to adapt like the very best players would, but i still believe he could prove useful if we played to his strengths.

 

What exactly is playing to his strengths? It seems to be that he only excels when he is clean through on goal 4 or 5 times a game preferably closer than 10 yards from goal and fingers crossed with the goalkeeper out of the game.

From what I've seen he's only really useful at the end of games we're winning to chuck on up front on his own and have him chase the ball around and pressure the defenders, he doesn't seem to be able to actually do anything else. 

Who knows, maybe he'll come good, I just don't see it 

[hippo]

48 minutes ago, weedman said:

What exactly is playing to his strengths? It seems to be that he only excels when he is clean through on goal 4 or 5 times a game preferably closer than 10 yards from goal and fingers crossed with the goalkeeper out of the game.

From what I've seen he's only really useful at the end of games we're winning to chuck on up front on his own and have him chase the ball around and pressure the defenders, he doesn't seem to be able to actually do anything else. 

Who knows, maybe he'll come good, I just don't see it 

Exactly this.

If all he can do is run onto through balls - then he isn't much use. As I have said before most goals scored the attacker generally has some work to do before getting his shot in, ie beating a defender, rising to get the header in - Hogan is woeful at this - 90% of the time the defender comes out on top.

Now before we all shout "Dean Smith Brentford"  - Sure we could base our whole system about through balls for Hogan  - his goals tally may go up - personally though, I wouldn't change the whole set up for a player so poor with the ball at his feet - and regularly misses half a season through injury.

Don't see him going out on loan either - (unless we still pay around 90% of his wages) - can't see there being much demand for an injury prone striker, who even when fit, gets four or five goals a season.