VillanousOne Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 I guess debating about feels pointless during this wretched run of form, he's not scoring goals and I doubt in the number of games we have left we will start playing in a way to suit him, (Weimann isn't going to play for us either). The whole team looks knackered and bereft of ideas, no one player seems to be able to have more than one decent game consecutively, i agree Hogan isn't the player we want or expected him to be, but it is down to Bruce and the coaching staff to get the best out of these players no matter how limited they are and right now it is not happening. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewFromT2 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 19 hours ago, Dale said: Dean Smith has and would have him scoring 20 goals a season in this league easy... Surprised nobody picked up on this.....you are 100% spot on! Hogan is awful in this Villa side....but proven at this level. You can apply the same comments to McCormack. Steve Bruce is responsible for Hogan's form. It's not unfair to also have a look at the Bruce affect of Lewis Grabban....on fire this season for Sunderland, comes to Villa, smashes goals left right and centre....now the Bruce affect has kicked in, he looks cack! I would love to see what Dean Smith could do with this squad next season (minus the old legs) and £10m to spend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Needs another yard of pace to be effective, saw it in the 1st half saturday 3 or 4 really good runs behind the defence good pass to him but the defender recovered and caught him up Interesting that vs reading the tactic seemed to be ball in from wide early and often, we crossed the ball a lot, not floaty high balls it was often low and flashed across, then on saturday we didnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I saw both sides of the argument on Saturday. The first half we did the normal Bruce tactic of playing it across the back and wait for the full back to hit it up the line aimlessly to Hogan. That is just pointless and it won't work with Hogan. I felt sorry for him. Then in the second half we actually had possession in the final third and he was nowhere to be seen. He just went missing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, ViewFromT2 said: Surprised nobody picked up on this.....you are 100% spot on! Hogan is awful in this Villa side....but proven at this level. You can apply the same comments to McCormack. Steve Bruce is responsible for Hogan's form. It's not unfair to also have a look at the Bruce affect of Lewis Grabban....on fire this season for Sunderland, comes to Villa, smashes goals left right and centre....now the Bruce affect has kicked in, he looks cack! I would love to see what Dean Smith could do with this squad next season (minus the old legs) and £10m to spend! Is he? At 26 years old he has had one good spell at this level. How is that proven? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, omariqy said: I saw both sides of the argument on Saturday. The first half we did the normal Bruce tactic of playing it across the back and wait for the full back to hit it up the line aimlessly to Hogan. That is just pointless and it won't work with Hogan. I felt sorry for him. Then in the second half we actually had possession in the final third and he was nowhere to be seen. He just went missing. 13 touches of the ball in the entire game tells it own story. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, ViewFromT2 said: Surprised nobody picked up on this.....you are 100% spot on! Hogan is awful in this Villa side....but proven at this level. You can apply the same comments to McCormack. Steve Bruce is responsible for Hogan's form. It's not unfair to also have a look at the Bruce affect of Lewis Grabban....on fire this season for Sunderland, comes to Villa, smashes goals left right and centre....now the Bruce affect has kicked in, he looks cack! I would love to see what Dean Smith could do with this squad next season (minus the old legs) and £10m to spend! So, by the powers of deduction. The previous managers of Sunderland were able to get Grabban to score 12 goals before he left......but unable to secure a win ratio for their team above 20% that seems a bit selective to me and makes little sense. However, Steve Bruce is reponsible for the footballing side of Aston Villa.....so it all comes back to him. Edited April 9, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewFromT2 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 39 minutes ago, TRO said: So, by the powers of deduction. The previous managers of Sunderland were able to get Grabban to score 12 goals before he left......but unable to secure a win ratio for their team above 20% that seems a bit selective to me and makes little sense. However, Steve Bruce is reponsible for the footballing side of Aston Villa.....so it all comes back to him. You're clearly no Sherlock Holmes Just alluding to the fact that the bloke was firing in a poor side....and until he was Bruceyfied, was firing for us.....took around 4 games to nullify the dynamism he brought to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewFromT2 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: Is he? At 26 years old he has had one good spell at this level. How is that proven? Proven that he can scores goals in the championship....would of thought that was pretty obvious really! 21 goals in 33 championship games spanning across 2 seasons....how many goals/games constitutes 'proven' if that isn't enough? Edited April 9, 2018 by ViewFromT2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, ViewFromT2 said: Proven that he can scores goals in the championship....would of thought that was pretty obvious really! 21 goals in 33 championship games spanning across 2 seasons....how many goals/games constitutes 'proven' if that isn't enough? So Marcus Stewart was a proven premier league striker? Players have good spells. As you've just said, it was 33 games. That's around 3/4 of a season. You really think that makes someone proven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ViewFromT2 said: You're clearly no Sherlock Holmes Just alluding to the fact that the bloke was firing in a poor side....and until he was Bruceyfied, was firing for us.....took around 4 games to nullify the dynamism he brought to us. and......... clearly you fall in to the same category.....2+2=5 could it be just him, too? was Paul Lambert so much better than Brendan Rogers or Jurgen Klopp to get a tune out of Benteke? Edited April 9, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewFromT2 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: So Marcus Stewart was a proven premier league striker? Players have good spells. As you've just said, it was 33 games. That's around 3/4 of a season. You really think that makes someone proven? Marcus Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, ViewFromT2 said: Marcus Stewart Played for ipswich, had an an amazing season in the prem scoring 19 goals. Following season, scored 6 as ipswich were relegated. A perfect example of a good spell does not equal proven. For me a proven player is someone who consistently performs over a few seasons. A spell of 33 games is nothing really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, ViewFromT2 said: Marcus Stewart He's no John Wark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I think it's mainly because of our style of play that he doesn't produce for us, but it's clear that his link up play is poor and doesn't connect with the others. In hindsight we could as well just have played Hepburn-Murphy (bar the fact that he has been injured) insted of shelling out X millions on Hogan. Bet RHM can do the running and pressing and scoring now and then to the same extent as Hogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewFromT2 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 15 hours ago, DCJonah said: Played for ipswich, had an an amazing season in the prem scoring 19 goals. Following season, scored 6 as ipswich were relegated. A perfect example of a good spell does not equal proven. For me a proven player is someone who consistently performs over a few seasons. A spell of 33 games is nothing really. I know who he is....was just astounded he was used as an example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 56 minutes ago, ViewFromT2 said: I know who he is....was just astounded he was used as an example Why? As i said, is he considered a proven premier league scorer because of that spell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewFromT2 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: Why? As i said, is he considered a proven premier league scorer because of that spell? Well in my opinion Yes, because he proved he can score goals in the premier league. He scored more than the odd goal in the didn't he?...In my opinion, a player scores 19 goals in the premier league is proven at the level. He was the highest english goalscorer the season Ipswich went up. He never played in the premier league till he was 29, so arguably in his prime the first season. He scored the same amount as Benteke got for Villa in his first season in the Premier League. He then got 6 goals in a relegated Ipswich side (Benteke only notched 10 the 2nd season). In my book, if Hogan got 7 in 7 one season, then 14 in 25 the season after, he is proven at the level! However, I accept you don't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 See also Michael Ricketts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 3 hours ago, ViewFromT2 said: Well in my opinion Yes, because he proved he can score goals in the premier league. He scored more than the odd goal in the didn't he?...In my opinion, a player scores 19 goals in the premier league is proven at the level. He was the highest english goalscorer the season Ipswich went up. He never played in the premier league till he was 29, so arguably in his prime the first season. He scored the same amount as Benteke got for Villa in his first season in the Premier League. He then got 6 goals in a relegated Ipswich side (Benteke only notched 10 the 2nd season). In my book, if Hogan got 7 in 7 one season, then 14 in 25 the season after, he is proven at the level! However, I accept you don't agree. I think you are correct, it sounds like something I would've said years ago on here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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