terrytini Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Veretout, Hourihane and Veretout are all very similar. I have no idea how you fit all 3 in to a team, especially when it seems we can't win a game without Jedinak playing in front of the defence. We lack so much pace in our squad. Lansbury you mean yes ? No need to play all three together IMO - perm 4 from them three plus Green, Adomah, Grealish, and McCormack. Then rotate away. Hopefully we will be more solid defensively without the need to play Jedi much..... and be more front foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Agree we've no pace so we need to play some footballers rather than just runners/blockers/ grafters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted July 13, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Veretout, Hourihane and Veretout are all very similar. I have no idea how you fit all 3 in to a team, especially when it seems we can't win a game without Jedinak playing in front of the defence. We lack so much pace in our squad. Since 2 of them will most probably be playing every game is 3 really a problem? Also id argue that pace is not as big a requirement in the centre of the park as a lot of other attributes. I'd be quite pleased to keep the 3 of them thisseason....dont think we will though unfortunately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 In a midfield 3, I think you need balance. You need one defensively minded, one attacking (no.10) and then one as the ball player/passer. Veretout/Lansbury/Hourihane/Bacuna/Gardner all fit the bill for the ball player/passer role but none of them, IMO, are out and out no.10's. They are also not defensively minded either. I'm just not sure how you fit them all in to 4-2-3-1 formation. Our squad is massively unbalanced as we don't have any decent wide players (Hoping Green comes good) and if we play 1 up top, you need to drop one of Kodjia/Hogan which after the money you spent on them, seems silly. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I have no idea what our starting XI will be. I suppose competition for places is good though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Adomah is a good wide player at this level. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 13, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 13, 2017 49 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: In a midfield 3, I think you need balance. You need one defensively minded, one attacking (no.10) and then one as the ball player/passer. Bremner, Mortimer and Cowans. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carewjust4u Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 53 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: In a midfield 3, I think you need balance. You need one defensively minded, one attacking (no.10) and then one as the ball player/passer. Veretout/Lansbury/Hourihane/Bacuna/Gardner all fit the bill for the ball player/passer role but none of them, IMO, are out and out no.10's. They are also not defensively minded either. I'm just not sure how you fit them all in to 4-2-3-1 formation. Our squad is massively unbalanced as we don't have any decent wide players (Hoping Green comes good) and if we play 1 up top, you need to drop one of Kodjia/Hogan which after the money you spent on them, seems silly. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I have no idea what our starting XI will be. I suppose competition for places is good though. I'd say if you play mcormack as the false-9, you don't need a number 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Bremner, Mortimer and Cowans. They are getting on a bit now, but could maybe do a job in the Championship. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Eastie said: Did you have a curly perm too i do think the money in the game has changed the mentality in some players compared to the old days - players now can pick up £30k for sitting in the bench week in week out , and some seem to lack the desire and will to win . 'fraid so. Edited July 13, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, mjmooney said: Bremner, Mortimer and Cowans. Fascinating blend. Mortimer could do a bit of both......marshalled well.....made deep penetrating runs before releasing to Morley. Cowans also had a wicked ability to win the ball, despite his Hoddle like skills offensively. Bremner was just a marathon runner, who covered every blade of grass and mithered the opposition to death. All these players had an ability to defend and close down, when you have out and out offensive players with little/no ability to close down.....you get problems. Thats where the top players score......they have fewer limitations. Edited July 13, 2017 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 He's a good, intelligent player with a good eye and decent passing skills. He can tackle too. What he can't do is link the play from 18 yards out, and we saw that too much last season. Sadly, we saw it last night also..... he played well higher up but - for whatever reason, and it's early days and it was only half a team - he got deeper and deeper and had less and less constructive influence. I said it for six months last season, and make no apology for repeating it as I think it is crucial - we HAVE to have st least 4, and probably 5 most times, players in the side with the remit to take the game to the opposition. For me, this will make or break both Bruce and our season. ( im not saying we won't, and I'm not judging on last night, but there were hints of more positive stuff but also hints of last year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, TRO said: Fascinating blend. Mortimer could do a bit of both......marshalled well.....made deep penetrating runs before releasing to Morley. Cowans also had a wicked ability to win the ball, despite his Hoddle like skills offensively. Bremner was just a marathon runner, who covered every blade of grass and mithered the opposition to death. All these players had an ability to defend and close down, when you have out and out offensive players with little/no ability to close down.....you get problems. Thats where the top players score......they have fewer limitations. I don't know whether it's the effect of time passing, but I've never seen another player like Mortimer. And I recall my Dad saying something like that the night we beat the Scousers 5-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, terrytini said: I don't know whether it's the effect of time passing, but I've never seen another player like Mortimer. And I recall my Dad saying something like that the night we beat the Scousers 5-1. Terry, I was there that night.....and your dad was spot on......He was close to a complete midfielder.....but they all had different attributing assets to create that necessary blend. The difficulty I have now is our current players are not as complete, so its more difficult,that is an observation as opposed to criticism. I love footballers as much as you Terry, but Paradoxically ball winners actually start the attack as opposed to some thinking they are cloggers or just combative......that is where the offensive usually begins. At the moment I am not convinced we have that role covered.....Jed is great at what he does but he is more static and protects the defence.....We need a dynamic one who is industrious and who can feed the front lads. "Its like a bricklayer having to come down the ladder to get mortar.....they need to be at the wall laying bricks" I am unsure if Hourihane and Lansbury can do that......I am hoping with Terry in tow, that can improve and they prove to be what we thought they was. Edited July 13, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottaloo Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 55 minutes ago, TRO said: Fascinating blend. Mortimer could do a bit of both......marshalled well.....made deep penetrating runs before releasing to Morley. Cowans also had a wicked ability to win the ball, despite his Hoddle like skills offensively. Bremner was just a marathon runner, who covered every blade of grass and mithered the opposition to death. All these players had an ability to defend and close down, when you have out and out offensive players with little/no ability to close down.....you get problems. Thats where the top players score......they have fewer limitations. Oh my days.....my favourite EVER midfield..... ....getting all misty eyed now.....and i dont mind admitting i was all giggly and bashful meeting DM in a corp suite one time. Totally modest dude who would have every right to act Bertie big Bollocks having lifted the biggest club trophy in Europe.....a lot of these teenage millionaire brats playing today could do worse than taking a few leaves out his book and feckin act like professionals !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 37 minutes ago, terrytini said: He's a good, intelligent player with a good eye and decent passing skills. He can tackle too. What he can't do is link the play from 18 yards out, and we saw that too much last season. Sadly, we saw it last night also..... he played well higher up but - for whatever reason, and it's early days and it was only half a team - he got deeper and deeper and had less and less constructive influence. I said it for six months last season, and make no apology for repeating it as I think it is crucial - we HAVE to have st least 4, and probably 5 most times, players in the side with the remit to take the game to the opposition. For me, this will make or break both Bruce and our season. ( im not saying we won't, and I'm not judging on last night, but there were hints of more positive stuff but also hints of last year). I did not see the game, but sadly seen that scenario last season. He has many attributes and I like him......but usually when that happens going deeper and deeper, the player is slowly losing his individual battle.You have to be able to hold your ground and its one of the reasons when you don't, forwards get cut adrift. Thats why I am anxious to see someone come in who can do that. I have confidence the forwards we have can cause the opposition problems......but they must have midfield players who can hold their ground and feed them( play them in) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, mottaloo said: Oh my days.....my favourite EVER midfield..... ....getting all misty eyed now.....and i dont mind admitting i was all giggly and bashful meeting DM in a corp suite one time. Totally modest dude who would have every right to act Bertie big Bollocks having lifted the biggest club trophy in Europe.....a lot of these teenage millionaire brats playing today could do worse than taking a few leaves out his book and feckin act like professionals !! That team had to face one helluva team in Bayern. That team of ours had amongst many, one redeeming feature.....they could grind out results and wear the opposition down. Bayern Munich that day had far superior technical skills than us.....but we had that priceless ability to stay hard to beat....Pugnacious and stubborn. I would love to preside over watching my team play like Arsenal/ManU/C/Chelsea.....but you have to be realistic in starting the hard road back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, mottaloo said: Oh my days.....my favourite EVER midfield..... ....getting all misty eyed now.....and i dont mind admitting i was all giggly and bashful meeting DM in a corp suite one time. Totally modest dude who would have every right to act Bertie big Bollocks having lifted the biggest club trophy in Europe.....a lot of these teenage millionaire brats playing today could do worse than taking a few leaves out his book and feckin act like professionals !! You say that and I know what you mean. but last season I witnessed a move by Eden Hazard, he picked up the ball in his own half and a opposing player was grappling with him, almost riding on his back like a lion on a wildebeest......He just kept ploughing his way through with sheer resilience and perseverance that resulted in a goal......absolutely amazing for a player with such silky skills.....showing his tough side. My point is .....some of these technically gifted players we see at the top of the Prem......Can mix it too......thats what makes them so special and more importantly effective. Edited July 13, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottaloo Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 46 minutes ago, TRO said: My point is .....some of these technically gifted players we see at the top of the Prem......Can mix it too......thats what makes them so special and more importantly effective. Good point made and i guess different eras different game. I just think that you knew the likes of Mortimer, Bremner, McNaught et al would mix it every week and you expected them to, whereas.....i dunno....it feels as if younger football fans go in to a frenzy of hero worship if a player occasionally shows sublime skills (or tekkers as I'm told) and as for the use of the word "legend"......dont get me started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Halcyon days gentlemen, halcyon days. Those three were tremendous as individuals and outstanding together, as were the entire team of 80/81 and 81/82. I was at Highbury, Rotterdam and plenty of places in between. Including that amazing night at Villa Park when in 45 sublime minutes we made the best team in Europe look like SHA. To compare any of that team with what we have now isn't really possible. The League and European Champions was a team all playing at their peak with an absolute believe that they could beat anyone on the planet. They had of course been brought together and coached by a man who had found his pinnacle with a particular group and at a particular club. All the stars had aligned and came together on May 26th 1982 when Aston Villa Football Club became the Champions of all Europe. Can we have other nights like that? Well it will be very difficult and it may take more than 5 years, but we're Aston Villa and anything absolutely anything is possible! Villa 'til I die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mykeyb Posted July 13, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 13, 2017 8 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: Veretout, Hourihane and Veretout are all very similar. Two are very very similar, almost identical you might say. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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