Grasshopper Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, terrytini said: Maybe not the first hoof for me but definitely the first half will be enough to see whether things are going to be different. Unreasonable ? No - because the things people will be looking for are simple tangible things - as you've outlined earlier- getting the midfield up in support of front players, cutting out the keeper/Baker hoof, getting on the front foot, and of course playing at least 4 players in a truly positive role... Simple enough things to look for and if he is interested in being more creative he will have these things in place from the Off. I also meant in preseason. If he cant put a marker down in the preperation games, then he doesnt deserve the oppertunity to fail us over a league campaign. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 9 hours ago, striker said: After listening to Wyness's interview clearly the board have been disappointed with this season's performances and those type of performances next season will not be tolerated. If Villa are not challenging for automatic promotion next season after 10-15 games then I'm certain that you will get your wish and Bruce will be replaced. Lets hope it will not come to that though due to Villa doing well? I really really really hope you're right, but fear that you won't be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post andym Posted May 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 23, 2017 6 hours ago, DCJonah said: I don't think to solved everything but again it was nothing like the shambles we witnessed the previous year. From failed owner who wanted out, whole fan base being negative, players not good enough for the level we were at to New owner with ambition, positivity all around the club, positive summer window and signing top players for the level we were at. Didn't solve everything but was completely different to the previous year. And anyone who watched those 11 games would have seen we weren't a million miles away from being a very competitive championship team. Exactly, how long are we going to keep blaming a 'toxic atmosphere' at the club. Like you say, new owner and management structure, completely revamped playing squad and we had our pick of the better players in this league. The season we went down, Fulham finished 20th in the championship, then we nicked their top striker, Reading finished 17th, Huddersfield 19th. Yet all three of those have finished miles above us and played far better football to go with it. I know it can be difficult coming down from the premier league, but is it so much a worse position to be in than finishing in the bottom 8 of the championship? Bruce is going to be on a short leash next season, he has to hit the ground running results wise, and the football needs to improve as well (i'd argue the two go hand in hand). 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted May 24, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 24, 2017 19 hours ago, Grasshopper said: I'll be going to some pre-season games, If I see a continuation of SJ staying on his line, punching and kicking it long and high to Hogan, Baker hoofing because the MF offers no out-ball, Hutton marauding down the flank crossing to row Z caught in possesion or out of position, Hourihane and Lansbury deployed deep, not dominating games, sitting back showing too much unnecessary respect I will explode in rage. But you wouldn't be able to post if you exploded in rage..... Well I might have to talk to Bruce and ask him to set up defensively until you explode. Then after he can play the attacking stuff ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted May 24, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 24, 2017 Sam Allardyce is available... Just saying... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted May 24, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 minute ago, flashingqwerty said: Sam Allardyce is available... Just saying... Is he, I haven't read British sports news yet. Resigned or sacked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Villan_of_oz said: Is he, I haven't read British sports news yet. Resigned or sacked? Resigned. Wants to spend more time with family and be free from football. Basically, he's retired. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 21 hours ago, AntrimBlack said: I don't get this. A new manager coming in in October? And expected to do what Bruce could not do? It will be too late then. It would appear that the die has been cast, so we have to hope that Bruce is up to the task, as the longer we are down in the Championship the more difficult it will be to get out of it. That's the problem. We have to hope Bruce gets us up. October will be about 10 games in like with RDM. I can't see us being that bad he goes any earlier but if he goes around October time we will need a miracle to go up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 19 hours ago, VillaCas said: I really really really hope you're right, but fear that you won't be By the time we kick off our first game of the season, there will be no excuses left. I agree with @striker, if Bruce is still serving up the same dross after 10 games he will gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 7 hours ago, picicata said: Resigned. Wants to spend more time with family and be free from football. Basically, he's retired. So he's not available. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 But he is from Dudley and we are a big club and it's a job that most managers would like a crack at................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 15 minutes ago, mykeyb said: But he is from Dudley and we are a big club and it's a job that most managers would like a crack at................... He's retired. He's now unrealistic for us and any club. If he wanted to carry on, he wouldn't have left palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 16 hours ago, av1 said: By the time we kick off our first game of the season, there will be no excuses left. I agree with @striker, if Bruce is still serving up the same dross after 10 games he will gone. If it's winning dross which he is shown he is capable of doing then he won't be going anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: If it's winning dross which he is shown he is capable of doing then he won't be going anywhere Quite. Suppose, after 12 matches next season, Bruce has achieved similar results to those from his first 12 with us last season. So something like won 6, drawn 4, lost 2. We'd be on 22 points and at least in the playoff places. This is a perfectly plausible scenario. If he was achieving this through ultra defensive football, hoofing long balls over midfield and waiting for Kodjia to nick the winning goal, what would the anti-Bruce lot do then? Call for him to be sacked because he wasn't playing "progressive" football or because they personally weren't enjoying it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Quite. Suppose, after 12 matches next season, Bruce has achieved similar results to those from his first 12 with us last season. So something like won 6, drawn 4, lost 2. We'd be on 22 points and at least in the playoff places. This is a perfectly plausible scenario. If he was achieving this through ultra defensive football, hoofing long balls over midfield and waiting for Kodjia to nick the winning goal, what would the anti-Bruce lot do then? Call for him to be sacked because he wasn't playing "progressive" football or because they personally weren't enjoying it? The worry would be/is that I can't see us getting those kind of results playing that kind of football. Doubt many would wan't him sacked for purely entertainment reasons while we are in the play off spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) On 24/05/2017 at 05:02, andym said: Exactly, how long are we going to keep blaming a 'toxic atmosphere' at the club. Like you say, new owner and management structure, completely revamped playing squad and we had our pick of the better players in this league. The season we went down, Fulham finished 20th in the championship, then we nicked their top striker, Reading finished 17th, Huddersfield 19th. Yet all three of those have finished miles above us and played far better football to go with it. I know it can be difficult coming down from the premier league, but is it so much a worse position to be in than finishing in the bottom 8 of the championship? Bruce is going to be on a short leash next season, he has to hit the ground running results wise, and the football needs to improve as well (i'd argue the two go hand in hand). A squad that still had gabby, richards, hutton, grealish, bunn, bacuna the main instigators of a slack attitude with no fight. Having a new owner, and management merely papered over the underlining issues and culture at the club. Let's face it the proof is in the pudding isn't it. Nothing has changed from the last 5 or so yrs. You've also listed 3 teams that have had a preseason - Huddersfield stuck with the miracle that is Wagner. Look at them now. How long can we keep going on about an atmosphere? probably longer than 10 months of a new regime. They don't have a magic wand. Edited May 25, 2017 by villan_007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted May 25, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, briny_ear said: If he was achieving this through ultra defensive football, hoofing long balls over midfield and waiting for Kodjia to nick the winning goal, what would the anti-Bruce lot do then? Call for him to be sacked because he wasn't playing "progressive" football or because they personally weren't enjoying it? This is a good point but it would be the same as last time accepting the wins but showing concern how Villa are playing. My worry is that by playing this way Villa are reliant on not conceding and if they do they wont have the system in place or a manager tactically aware enough to continually overhaul a deficit. Edited May 25, 2017 by striker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, sne said: The worry would be/is that I can't see us getting those kind of results playing that kind of football. Doubt many would wan't him sacked for purely entertainment reasons while we are in the play off spots. Mourinho (never sure how to spell this) has won trophies throughout his career by being organised defensively and having one star player that can do most things on their own that he hoofs it to. Chelsea he had Drogba, albeit with a very able support cast of Lampard etc., Ronaldo at Real, Hazard at Chelsea the second time (Hazard confirmed this by basically saying Mourinho never gave him tactical instructions and just told him to do his thing, as opposed to Conte who is constantly in his and everybody elses ear giving him advice on how to improve). He used Ibrahimovic and hoofs for the majority of this season as the focal point, although in my opinion with the squad that he had this year he has underachieved (in the league at least), he's still won two trophies. Bruce and Villa is a poor man's version of this with Kodija being the one that we rely on for the spark. That kind of football can produce results but is very reliant on the Star Player's form and thus is very limited. See Hazard in the second season of Mourinho's second spell at Chelsea. He didn't fancy it and the manager got sacked or he left before he got sacked or whatever the reason was, I'm not entirely sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 1 minute ago, sparrow1988 said: Mourinho (never sure how to spell this) has won trophies throughout his career by being organised defensively and having one star player that can do most things on their own that he hoofs it to. Chelsea he had Drogba, albeit with a very able support cast of Lampard etc., Ronaldo at Real, Hazard at Chelsea the second time (Hazard confirmed this by basically saying Mourinho never gave him tactical instructions and just told him to do his thing, as opposed to Conte who is constantly in his and everybody elses ear giving him advice on how to improve). He used Ibrahimovic and hoofs for the majority of this season as the focal point, although in my opinion with the squad that he had this year he has underachieved (in the league at least), he's still won two trophies. Bruce and Villa is a poor man's version of this with Kodija being the one that we rely on for the spark. That kind of football can produce results but is very reliant on the Star Player's form and thus is very limited. See Hazard in the second season of Mourinho's second spell at Chelsea. He didn't fancy it and the manager got sacked or he left before he got sacked or whatever the reason was, I'm not entirely sure. Sorry, I just can't in any way go along with a Mourinho/Bruce analogy. It doesn't work for me on any level. They are nothing alike, and neither is their football. Mourinho is a pragmatic who uses the tools he feels he has to best work against the opponents, defensive or attacking. The squad we have is in no way suited to the way we play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 26 minutes ago, sne said: The worry would be/is that I can't see us getting those kind of results playing that kind of football. But that's exactly what he did last season when he first arrived, that's why I raised the example. The worry, based on last season's experience, would be that he couldn't sustain it, but presumably that is what he will be working on during pre-season and the transfer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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