HanoiVillan Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 5 hours ago, sheepyvillian said: You're really in the know ,aren't you ? You don't have to be ITK to realise he won't be sacked this season. We could lose out and he still wouldn't be sacked. Sorry to break it to you, but you're shit out of luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 1 hour ago, briny_ear said: I think maybe you mean "qualifying for the playoffs" - NOT getting a promotion place (i.e. 1st or 2nd), which has been in reality out of reach all season. Even after Bruce's first good run, making the playoffs was always an extreme long shot. If that is an accurate reflection of the position you are discussing, the phrase "cost us promotion" should surely be withdrawn? Yes I meant qualifying for the play offs you are quite right ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted April 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted April 15, 2017 14 hours ago, srsmithusa said: TRO, reasonably stated but I disagree on a couple of premises. I do not think it was naive to think we had a real chance of going up this season (new owner, new manager, huge investment in playing staff, quite effective at shipping a whole bunch of the poor performers). I think if you took a pulse of the fans pre-season and read the comments from the club at the time, it was the consensus goal. Not that it would be easy or a cake walk. Not without those saying it was unrealistic. But certainly the vast majority of club comments were clear that it was the goal and that it was attainable. I think it became unrealistic in the first 11 matches and impossible in January & February. Some portion of the blame for that lies with Bruce, but clearly not all. My view is that the culture needed to change. Neither RDM, nor Bruce did enough to change the culture before January (IMO). Hate to jump into your discussion lads, you both made some good points. however it's this bit I have a bit of a problem with. At the start of the season I'd have agreed that it was a real possibility that we would have gone straight back up, we were an ex prem team with a new smattering of the best talent in this lower division....I thought we were a shoe in tbh. It's only now, looking back, do I realise how nieve we were thinking that, that all the other fans of teams in this division were actually right...we were over confident and massively unprepared! This really hit me when someone posted the team that started against Sheffield wed on the opening weekend. It's almost laughable now that we thought a team containing McCormack, gestede, gollini, cissokho, Gardner, Westwood, et al would do well in this division. What was wrong with this as much as anything was our blinkered expectations. We got it as wrong as rdm and dr tony did. The simple fact was we were never going up with that team, it was ignorant to think any different. yes money and ambition will give you a massive advantage, but this takes time to come to fruition. It's no quick fix. Most of us didn't realise the extent to which our problems had caught up with us, and no amount of money was ever going to fix this inside a season. This team now is 100% better than the one we started that game with but tbh it's still not good enough to get us up, but it's not too far away. The lick of paint we need is obvious to us all now because we have had the time to work out the flaws ourselves, and this is nothing different to the problem Bruce faced/faces. What we can't do is put the blame at Bruce's door IMO, it was a fire fighting job he inherited dressed up as a potential promotion team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 We would have been OK had we started the season with a new midfield and an experienced goalkeeper. The lack of defensive cover, together with a lack of creativity, is almost certainly what cost us. The new "keeper" cost us a fair few points alone. Gollini was a terrible and costly mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 8 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: You don't have to be ITK to realise he won't be sacked this season. We could lose out and he still wouldn't be sacked. Sorry to break it to you, but you're shit out of luck. We could lose out ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 23 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: We could lose out ? It's an Americanism To "Win out" is to "win" every game till the seasons "out" (out meaning over) To "lose out" is the same. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted April 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, villarocker said: We would have been OK had we started the season with a new midfield and an experienced goalkeeper. The lack of defensive cover, together with a lack of creativity, is almost certainly what cost us. The new "keeper" cost us a fair few points alone. Gollini was a terrible and costly mistake. The problem is we thought the midfield would have been good enough! Gardner had done well at this lv and most thought Westwood too had found his lv. Mix in the magic of grealish and a fantastic new prospect and we were going to be OK here. Its only after a few games that we realised we weren't. Problem is then it's more a case of planning for Jan....which we did. we thought we had ample cover in def too with Richards and baker, and a brand spanking new keeper. this is the problem with thinking money will buy yourself out of a division, that every signing is a gamble. rdms lack of experience didn't help. I would love to have seen who Bruce would have bought in pre season and if that would have helped. tbh I think we would still have fallen short. Too much to correct in too short a time! Edited April 15, 2017 by Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, sheepyvillian said: You're really in the know ,aren't you ? No. Not in the slightest. But you don't have to be in the know to see that he isn't getting sacked this season or in the summer (obviously outside of any exceptional circumstances) Edited April 15, 2017 by Stevo985 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) Football is football If we get spanked by Reading & Fulham, Lose away at Blackburn, a team fighting for survival, and then Zola plays us off the park I think the silence around the club would be deafening. Add to that Brighton needing to beat us by 1 more goal than Toon beating Barnsley on the last day. Knokaert (sp?) on a hatrick BHA leadin 0-2 HT - I wouldn't want to be in Bruce's shoes when the 3rd one goes in..... Edited April 15, 2017 by Grasshopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: Football is football If we get spanked by Reading & Fulham, Lose away at Blackburn, a team fighting for survival, and then Zola plays us off the park I think the silence around the club would be deafening. Be careful what you wish for, young Grasshopper. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Bruce in, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Johnnyp Posted April 15, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2017 Something incredibly flaky about this villa team under Bruce. I'm just not convinced. The "run" couldn't last, how could it. Look at those games under closer inspection, little possession, dreadful football. Talk that we will be promoted next season is based on absolutely zero foundations. Teams with less individual talent than us look miles better in terms of they've clearly been coached as a group mon-fri. Brighton, Leeds, Brentford to name a few. They play with shape and purpose. Worrying under Bruce. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) Automatic promotion should be the goal next season but there's still a hell of a lot to do. The team still isn't quite right - we need a keeper who actually isn't shit for starters, Chester also needs better quality playing next to him. Despite the investments in midfield it still isn't up to par, something has to be done, I'd say we need a 'quality' (for this level) central midfielder and quality on the left hand side. Then there's the concerns around Bruce's tactics and approach which will, IMO, always bubble under the surface. He is too rigid and has been far too cautious. I think he has earned the right to be here next season but if things aren't looking good toward December he has to be let go. That said there's still like a month of the season to go, a bottom half finish in this league really is a poor return when his objective was clearly playoffs... Edited April 15, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 17 hours ago, terrytini said: TRO I don't disagree with 90 % of your Post (s) . For example I never thought promotion a realistic thing this season. And I'm not interested in pretty football. And there was much to be done. And, and, and !! ....much agreement. There is one significant thing you don't really address though, and often sort of skip....which was in part what Grasshopper was saying, and what I've said constantly. It is that his chosen players and tactics had a bearing on that run ( just as they had a bearing on what came before and after). For me the real debate isn't whether he's a good bloke, or his track record ( good and bad), nor what level of prettiness or entertainment his football offers. It id simply that he IS a cautious Manager. For better or worse. He will play fewer flair players and more grafters. For better or worse. He told Hogan the "main reason he bought him was his running and work rate" and that sums him up. For better or worse. He bought Lansbury who regularly got beyond the forwards at Forest, and doesn't now. For better or worse. I could list lots of examples. Ipswich is my preferred example as representing this. He picked cautiously and only picked positively after an hour. He cost us !! He did ! (I don't hold it against him, everyone makes mistakes, but I do think it was down to him. One example.) In other words I'm not saying definitively those traits are inherently bad. But they ARE there. And in January he reacted to the loss of Kodja and Jedi in line with those traits. Doesn't mean I hate him, or he's mad, or clueless, or that his ideas couldn't ever have worked. Its just he went the way he WOULD go. And IMO it cost us. Just like it may reward us in the future of course. But it's my view that with THIS Club, now, with the Docs backing, he needs to add some bravado to his methods, some risk, some brash assertiveness. If he did, if he could make that incremental adjustment ( but a big leap for him) I think everything else would click aswell. I hope it's clear coz it's sometimes frustrating how many times this view gets lost in translation !!! No its not lost in translation.....I understand. I just happen to think you are expecting too much too soon. Ron Saunders seemed to have similar criticisms aimed at his 110% work rate philosophy. The Walsall manager is asking his team to "win ugly"........Wenger is coming under fire for his soft under belly.....it seems like you could be right and wrong every week. i think Steve Bruce is right for us right now......but I am not going to blame his overall strategy over 1 setback. we are going to need a few windows before we look like the team we want them to.......with or without Steve Bruce. I am not opposed in principal to what you are saying, I just think with the level of demise, it's going to take longer than we all think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Shocking today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Monk signed a one year rolling contract in the summer. If Wyness doesn't monitor that situation he isn't doing his job imo. Young, progressive, coach with a good back room team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) wrong thread Edited April 15, 2017 by AshVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Can't help but feel we are wasting our time again. Didn't comment much during our good run because i didn't watch any of it. Just saw the fantastic results. But after seeing the QPR game I'm not surprised it's been poor. You just can't expect to be consistent playing that shit. I don't expect him to be here past next Christmas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, TRO said: No its not lost in translation.....I understand. I just happen to think you are expecting too much too soon. Ron Saunders seemed to have similar criticisms aimed at his 110% work rate philosophy. The Walsall manager is asking his team to "win ugly"........Wenger is coming under fire for his soft under belly.....it seems like you could be right and wrong every week. i think Steve Bruce is right for us right now......but I am not going to blame his overall strategy over 1 setback. we are going to need a few windows before we look like the team we want them to.......with or without Steve Bruce. I am not opposed in principal to what you are saying, I just think with the level of demise, it's going to take longer than we all think. But he'll not be given more than the summer and the first half of next season to fix this. Anyone thinking Bruce will be here for the long haul regardless of results are IMO out of touch with how modern football works. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 7 hours ago, Grasshopper said: It's an Americanism To "Win out" is to "win" every game till the seasons "out" (out meaning over) To "lose out" is the same. I thought we already had , lost out that is . Look at the original post ,you'll see an attempt at wit, but never mind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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