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The thing is though yes SB didn't spend millions and millions like Dean has but due to our stature at championship level we still managed to attract players down there hardly anyone else could.

John Terry, little more needs to be said on that one.

Snodgrass. Yes at the time we picked him up he was out of favour but since he's gone back to West Ham he's regularly started games for mid table prem club.

Tammy Abraham. Still had lots to prove when we signed him but given he's second prem top scorer now just a few months after playing for us that was basically cheat mode having him upfront for us in the championship.

Glenn Whelan. Still gets capped by ROI even now. Was regular still at Stoke when we signed him so clearly offered a decent wage to tempt him down a level.

Yannick Bolasie, remember him? One for forgotten players thread but we were paying him 60k of course.

I know SB didn't decide how much to pay them but really when he came out in the press and said those signings were "waifs and strays" and we had to beg and borrow to get them in that really I think was a bit of a insult to majority of championship managers who do have to wheel and deal in the loan market.

You compare our squad to the one Warnock had in 17/18 and that was proper bargain basement. Not getting top 2 that year was a failure and it all blew up in the play offs and was beginning of the end for his time here.

I do have to admit he's doing much better than I thought he would so far at Newcastle and they're in a pretty good position to stay up so not going to slag him off when he's doing fine there so far.

Edited by VillaChris
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4 minutes ago, TRO said:

I couldn't care less about him or Newcastle.....what I care about is presenting a fair case on a manger who inherited a team who couldn't buy a win and conceded goals worse than we are now. I don't support Bruce, I support a fair argument.

so his style was Cautious to a fault and boring with it....but he was never the devil as some portray....or the idiot, like some try to pedal.

Where was these unlimited funds he had from Xia....I think you are dreaming......He brought in McGinn, Tammy and John Terry, and helped Jack with his personal trainer to develop,not bad for a dinosaur.....sure he ****ed up with Hogan.....but its looking like we may have mark 2

 

Who you're on about, SB or DS given Smith came in when we were conceding 3s to Preston and 4s at Sheffield United. We also had 1 win in about 9 games when Bruce was sacked.

I actually gave him a free pass for 16/17. Loads were disappointed he didn't get us in the play offs but let's be honest we were still a mess and a disjointed team in most areas and the losing mentality lingered.

Top heavy upfront but McCormack and Ayew massively disappointed at this level and Jack was still having issues off the pitch. Our CM options were weak even for championship level and at the back Tommy Elphick and Gollini also struggled.

As much as Dean did a pretty good job to get us up in the end anyone who would've got us promoted in 16/17 would've been a true miracle worker.

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2 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

The thing is though yes SB didn't spend millions and millions like Dean has but due to our stature at championship level we still managed to attract players down there hardly anyone else could.

John Terry, little more needs to be said on that one.

Snodgrass. Yes at the time we picked him up he was out of favour but since he's gone back to West Ham he's regularly started games for mid table prem club.

Tammy Abraham. Still had lots to prove when we signed him but given he's second prem top scorer now just a few months after playing for us that was basically cheat mode having him upfront for us in the championship.

Glenn Whelan. Still gets capped by ROI even now. Was regular still at Stoke when we signed him so clearly offered a decent wage to tempt him down a level.

Yannick Bolasie, remember him? One for forgotten players thread but we were paying him 60k of course.

I know SB didn't decide how much to pay them but really when he came out in the press and said those signs were "waifs and strays" and we had to beg and borrow to get them in that really I think was a bit of a insult to majority of championship managers who do have to wheel and deal in the loan market.

You compare our squad to the one Warnock had in 17/18 and that was proper bargain basement. Not getting top 2 that year was a failure and it all blow up in the play offs and was beginning of the end for his time here.

I do have to admit he's doing much better than I thought he would so far at Newcastle and they're in a pretty good position to stay up so not going to slag him off when he's doing fine there so far.

I agree on the wages.....but those players were not transfer fee's they were loans......1 player out of that lot was bought......I don't know how that argument is fair.

In some quarters they say its harder to get a tune out of a loan player.

To me he spent very little....surely its the club that agree's wages.

anyway, I'm not trying to compare, they are so different......just disagreeing with what I see as an unfair argument that he had riches in resource....they wasn't our players.

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11 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Who you're on about, SB or DS given Smith came in when we were conceding 3s to Preston and 4s at Sheffield United. We also had 1 win in about 9 games when Bruce was sacked.

I actually gave him a free pass for 16/17. Loads were disappointed he didn't get us in the play offs but let's be honest we were still a mess and a disjointed team in most areas and the losing mentality lingered.

Top heavy upfront but McCormack and Ayew massively disappointed at this level and Jack was still having issues off the pitch. Our CM options were weak even for championship level and at the back Tommy Elphick and Gollini also struggled.

As much as Dean did a pretty good job to get us up in the end anyone who would've got us promoted in 16/17 would've been a true miracle worker.

That was on the back of his father and mother passing and a club barely in existence, he didn't even have time off, the man was busted..... are you having a laugh.....all the loans had gone and we hadn't a pot to **** in.

I was judging him on the season before.

sure the sack was inevitable....**** me Pep wouldn't have survived those 11 games after a summer of not knowing if he had a job and most of the management had gone....he was on his own, with his finger in the dam

following that.....

Dean did a great Job, in turning it around no denying that.....I didn't think he would get us up.

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9 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree on the wages.....but those players were not transfer fee's they were loans......1 player out of that lot was bought......I don't know how that argument is fair.

In some quarters they say its harder to get a tune out of a loan player.

To me he spent very little....surely its the club that agree's wages.

anyway, I'm not trying to compare, they are so different......just disagreeing with what I see as an unfair argument that he had riches in resource....they wasn't our players.

They were proven and signed to get us up given they were all over 30 so little long term planning but that's how the majority of championship clubs do it. West Brom's best player this season is a loan player although they'll probably sign him if they go up.

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1 minute ago, VillaChris said:

They were proven and signed to get us up given they were all over 30 so little long term planning but that's how the majority of championship clubs do it. West Brom's best player this season is a loan player although they'll probably sign him if they go up.

I'm sorry Chris....I am not in the slightest interested in him.....I just don't subscribe to the arguments against his tenure in full.

sure the last season was a toughie and hard to defend, but I think he made us a bit more difficult to beat, overall.

I was actually pleased with the reception he got from behind the dug out in our recent game.....fair play to those fans.

I am now more interested to see Dean Smith keep us up.....where ironically the problems seem to be the opposite of what they once were.

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4 minutes ago, TRO said:

That was on the back of his father and mother passing and a club barely in existence are you having a laugh.....all the loans had gone and we hadn't a pot to **** in.

I was judging him the season before.

sure the sack was inevitable....**** me Pep wouldn't have survived those 11 games after a summer of not knowing if he had a job and most of the management had gone....he was on his own, with his finger in the dam

Dean did a great Job, in turning it around no denying that.....I didn't think he would get us up.

Eh? I'm not sure where this argument is going but I was just trying to make the point that what Dean inherited in October 2018 was similar to what SB came into two years before, some decent if inconsistant attacking players but major flaws in midfield and defence.

Anyway SB should've gone after play off final. Not least for the awful family stuff that happened to him that season as you referenced which would take lots out of anyone. As much as I was hugely disappointed with how we played in the final overall he'd have left us on better terms than he eventually did as he at least got us moving in the right direction.

Then the world collapsed and he was asked to pretty much steer a ship that was getting flooded from below.

It's probably worth remembering at this point btw when everyone's frustrated because we can't beat top 6 teams in the premier league that we could easily be now stuck in mid table in championship wondering why we can't beat any of that level's top 6 and also wondering what if with Grealish scoring another wonder goal for Spurs.

That was very nearly a reality in August 2018. Thank the lord for Wes and Nas coming in.

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9 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Eh? I'm not sure where this argument is going but I was just trying to make the point that what Dean inherited in October 2018 was similar to what SB came into two years before, some decent if inconsistant attacking players but major flaws in midfield and defence.

Anyway SB should've gone after play off final. Not least for the awful family stuff that happened to him that season as you referenced which would take lots out of anyone. As much as I was hugely disappointed with how we played in the final overall he'd have left us on better terms than he eventually did as he at least got us moving in the right direction.

Then the world collapsed and he was asked to pretty much steer a ship that was getting flooded from below.

It's probably worth remembering at this point btw when everyone's frustrated because we can't beat top 6 teams in the premier league that we could easily be now stuck in mid table in championship wondering why we can't beat any of that level's top 6 and also wondering what if with Grealish scoring another wonder goal for Spurs.

That was very nearly a reality in August 2018. Thank the lord for Wes and Nas coming in.

I agree...every cloud has a silver lining as they say.

I don't think that is the real case.....I think its more to do with how we give the ball away so easily and fail to win second balls etc etc etc.

The recent results have been disappointing while at the same time expected against first class opposition.

Its the nature of the errors and the basic flaws that are narking some folk.....some basic things you wouldn't expect from Premiership teams.

 

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I'm not quite sure why this thread is always bumped to the top page, probably cos of people like me chipping in 😉 but for what it's worth, my two penneth...

Bruce is not the devil like some would believe and overall he did an OK job at Villa. He got the feel good factor at the club back, steadied the ship and got us winning football matches (albeit not in a particular 'attractive' way). He led us to a play off final but we ultimately came up short against a much better 'footballing' side. He obviously has good traits as a manager which currently seem to be rubbing off at Newcastle but long term I don't think he is the answer. For them. Or would have been for us. His style of play may be picking up a fair number of points so far but ultimately I very much doubt it will last. It will only get you so far.

As for Smith, I think he has been pretty much spot on with every decision he has made since he arrived here. The achievement in getting us promoted was fantastic and the style of football and the desire to win EVERY game is a breath of fresh air. 

We are in a different league now against much superior teams and as a manager he is learning but he definitely deserves the trust and patience of ALL our support for a long time yet. 

I thought tactically against Leicester he got it wrong (first time I've questioned him to be honest), I think we underestimated their strengths and played way too open. I would hope that he develops a different side to our game because there are times when you need to grind out results a la Bruce and not rely on outscoring the opponent but I am confident that he is the man to do this.

UTV.

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4 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

TRO ❤️ Steve Bruce

That's where you have completely misread me.

Just disagree, with many things his critics level against him.....some things I agree with by the way.

And before you ask, No I don't want him back......or RDM or Sherwood or Garde or Lambert or Houllier or MON or McLeish or O'Leary.

Blimey we certainly paid our penance for having Sir Ron.

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On 10/12/2019 at 15:45, TRO said:

That's where you have completely misread me.

I Just disagree, with many things his critics level against him.....some things I agree with by the way.

And before you ask, No I don't want him back......or RDM or Sherwood or Garde or Lambert or Houllier or MON or McLeish or O'Leary.

Blimey we certainly paid our penance for having Sir Ron.

 

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On 11/12/2019 at 09:33, villalad21 said:

It's sad how much stick you get on here for saying something positive about Bruce.

The thing is.....some of the stuff his critics say, I agree with.....but some of the stuff, was just plain barmy.

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On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 15:44, rodders0223 said:

It's no fun now he is actually winning games.

The selfish bastard.

Useless dinosaur, can never cut it in the premier league. Didn't get us anywhere near promotion etc etc.

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On 10/12/2019 at 00:10, VillaChris said:

Who you're on about, SB or DS given Smith came in when we were conceding 3s to Preston and 4s at Sheffield United. We also had 1 win in about 9 games when Bruce was sacked.

I actually gave him a free pass for 16/17. Loads were disappointed he didn't get us in the play offs but let's be honest we were still a mess and a disjointed team in most areas and the losing mentality lingered.

Top heavy upfront but McCormack and Ayew massively disappointed at this level and Jack was still having issues off the pitch. Our CM options were weak even for championship level and at the back Tommy Elphick and Gollini also struggled.

As much as Dean did a pretty good job to get us up in the end anyone who would've got us promoted in 16/17 would've been a true miracle worker.

I think if there is one thing we can unilaterally agree on regarding Bruce, it’s that when he went it was 100% the right call, both in real time and with the power of hindsight.

 

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